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GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

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Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#331

Post by akhilcacharya »

jcims wrote: post #280
house9-2 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's highly unlikely they're illegals I consider 'illegals' to be a derogatory term used by racists (whether they think they are racist is another matter) Did you drive a car today? Did you speed? If so that is an illegal activity so maybe you are also an 'illegal'? Maybe I am way off base? I should probably go hug a tree or something.

Why would a racist care enough to specify the legality of their presence in the US? That doesn't even stand up to basic reasoning. 'Illegal', while possibly indelicate, gets to the root of the immigration discussion...people sidestepping the process of lawfully entering the US because it's too difficult for them or too slow for their circumstances or just impossible because they are ineligible. Saying that everyone t…

> Why would a racist care enough to specify the legality of their presence in the US? That doesn't even stand up to basic reasoning.

Have you ever heard of dog whistles?

Anyways, Ive never met someone that says things like this but also opposed efforts to reduce legal immigration like the RAISE act or refugee/travel bans. As it turns out, there’s a high correlation!

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#332

Post by thereare5lights »

shadowgovt wrote: post #123
thereare5lights wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends. At a small company? Sure. But no individual employee, or even small collective of employees that aren't VP or key contributor in an irreplaceable knowledge-base, have the clout to turn a Microsoft or a Google. I see this claim thrown around a lot with no evidence for it.

I have no strong evidence other than "It's actually happening right now and the companies have only made minor deviations from their courses." That second half is purely subjective, and we won't really have a good idea on how much of a difference it made until historians can look back on this era with a quarter-century of hindsight.

> I have no strong evidence other than "It's actually happening right now and the companies have only made minor deviations from their courses."

I've yet to see anything actually happen in terms of exerting pressure aside from internal grumbling.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#333

Post by dredmorbius »

plurple wrote: post #253
house9-2 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's highly unlikely they're illegals I consider 'illegals' to be a derogatory term used by racists (whether they think they are racist is another matter) Did you drive a car today? Did you speed? If so that is an illegal activity so maybe you are also an 'illegal'? Maybe I am way off base? I should probably go hug a tree or something.

Luckily, whether you consider something racist or not has no actual impact on the usage of the term. And of course, you’re free to call a speeder an “illegal” if you want, just like apparently you’re free to call other HN users racist for using common terminology in a way you don’t like.

I give you Teen Vogue:

Why You Shouldn’t Use the Term “Illegals” Not only is it offensive, it's dehumanizing.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/why-you-shouldnt-use-the-ter...

Well-cited article with numerous references. Teen Vogue has become quite serious of late.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#334

Post by smudgymcscmudge »

commandlinefan wrote: post #125
duxup wrote: post #19

I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…

I also have to wonder what percentage of GitHub’s employees _are_ non-US citizens. Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners; if they see U.S. immigration as an adversary, they may be opposing any contract on personal grounds.

A good portion of GitHub’s employees live in Europe. Of the employees who live in America, most are citizens.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#335

Post by lovehashbrowns »

smsm42 wrote: post #308
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The words you use have an effect on how others feel and how they're perceived. The word "illegals" can have negative connotations, and it's a dehumanizing word.

It has negative connotations because it describes the act that is against the law. That's literally what "illegal" means. If you think it's OK to violate the law, then the connotations would be positive, if you do not, then the negative connotations are appropriate. You can't have it both ways.

It's not due to the definition, it's because of how the word has been used. There are terms which refer to undocumented immigrants which still represent their status, but are not dehumanizing.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#336

Post by smudgymcscmudge »

duxup wrote: post #19

I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…

About a quarter of the company has signed the protest letter. I signed the letter just so people would stop nagging me to sign. I don’t care about ICE. I suspect there are others who got pressured into signing.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#337

Post by masonic »

dragontamer wrote: post #264
refurb wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gitmo’s a great example. Under Bush it was immoral. Under Obama? Barely heard a thing. Sure standardUser might have thought it immoral all along, but did he attack both parties (when in power) with the same zeal?

> Gitmo’s a great example. Under Bush it was immoral. Under Obama? Barely heard a thing. Your history is off. Obama tried to shut it down until it was overturned by Congress. As soon as the political reality of transferring the prisoners became apparent, all Congressmen blocked the closure of Gitmo. No one wanted to take the prisoners into their own state. No one wanted to be the Senator or Representative to say "I a…

  Obama tried to shut it down
It originated under Obama, and his party controlled Congress at the time.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#338

Post by anigbrowl »

masonic wrote: post #149
annoyingnoob wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is surely in the mix. To me, its about human decency. I support immigration, but even if you do not support immigration you should support human decency. Making people sleep in cages on concrete, limiting supplies, limiting legal assistance, separating families - those are horrible ways to treat other humans, other humans simply seeking a better life. We are largely a nation of immigrants. We've lost sight of ou…

Making people sleep in cages on concrete That was during the Obama Administration , yet those in outrage over ICE now were utterly silent then . Why is that?

those in outrage over ICE now were utterly silent then

Not true. You just weren't listening.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#339

Post by no_opinions »

As as for the ICE thing, wouldn't the thing to do be to complain to the legislature or IG of ICE if they wanted to see change?

What is trying to be accomplished? Just relieving stress by acting out against authority figures? Or are they trying to improve the law?

What part of immigration law / regulation is at issue? Is it the actions of particular employees? Is it with CBP, ICE, or USCIS?

I am of the understanding this is about undocumented immigrants. Isn't filling out a landing form required by every country?

What specifically needs changing? If you want to get together and "replace ICE", why not? People love improvement. Go and write a better law than Joe Lieberman, he created DHS.

(He also also was the independent that voted against the public healthcare option in ACA, 59 votes, he said something like, "I'm going to be stubborn on this one")

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#340

Post by anigbrowl »

whalesalad wrote: post #31

A lot of these companies need to start sticking to their guns and simply letting people go for conflicts like this. If you’re not gonna be a team player there are a billion other tech companies you can go be a part of. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the core issue here – but at some point the message needs to be sent that you don’t deserve a job and aren’t owed anything. You work in exchange for cash, plain and…

If company owners aren't team players then the message needs to be sent that they don't deserve a charter or a labor force and aren't owed anything. Businesses that are party to the destruction of human rights have no basis for existence.
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