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Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

bbc.com

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Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#331

Post by gtallen1187 »

I feel like this headline is a bit misleading. If you read the actual conversation, the question posed to this Google Exec seems to be more about manners than anything else. The question reads to me as: "Do you think you should let your houseguests know that you have a camera in the house?" to which the answer is clearly yes. The way this headline is structured seems to imply that the Google Exec is warning users that they're always being watched/recorded.

Again, this is simply my interpretation of the conversation, but I feel as though it's a reasonable one. And one that was likely shared by the Google Exec in this article.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#332

Post by tziki »

khelenek wrote: post #284

These comments are lunacy. He's suggesting etiquette if someone puts a Nest recording device (not a thermostat) inside their house purposefully, probably for security purposes. Security cameras have existed for decades and nothing has changed here.

Welcome to hacker news, where facts don't matter and big tech is always out to get you.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#333

Post by matheusmoreira »

cmsonger wrote: post #175
saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

My personal view is that the biggest issue here is the lack of user protection. I'd be a LOT less concerned about this if the appropriate legal framework protected me. The Star Trek vision of voice as an interface is a good vision. The question is how the regulatory framework protects users in this world and keeps it from being the dystopian nightmare that our "for profit corporations get to do whatever they like as…

Star Trek is a post scarcity society. There is no capitalism, commumism or even an economy. Every basic need is met. People join Starfleet and work as officers purely so they can better themselves and explore the stars. This is incredibly optimistic vision of the future.

We are far more likely to end up in a cyberpunk nightmare where corporations are richer than entire nations and technology is used to subjugate and control people.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#334

Post by TurkishPoptart »

wazoox wrote: post #140
XJ6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition. They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos or might appear in future which is insane to ask of anyone, no-one can really give that third party consent. Then when I refused they showed me a nag screen which didn't hav…

Aaaand that's why I never uploaded any photo with recognizable individuals (except people performing publicly) to Google Photos...

I'm sorry to break this to you, but I think all photos taken on Android are automatically uploaded to Google Photos regardless

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#335

Post by eslaught »

mey wrote: post #322
oppositelock wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me. What am I missing by not having inter…

I value privacy, my nest thermostat is the only IoT device in my house that talks to the internet or can be accessed remotely without a VPN. What I find most valuable is it programs itself. Am I cold? Turn it up a bit, hot? Turn it down a bit. Suddenly I have stopped having to adjust it at all. Even as life has changed. It has some nice other features, such as preheating/cooling, telling me how long it will take to g…

Ok, but what on this list actually requires an internet connection? I guess the integration with your power company. But aside from that?

You could put a local AI model into the Nest, and it shouldn't need to talk to the internet at all. It can keep the data locally, and be programmed to draw inferences without help from the mothership.

For some reason we've decided it's ok to gratuitously connect everything to the internet "just cause". Sort of like how data maximization has become a thing because the costs are low, so why not?

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#336

Post by xnyan »

oppositelock wrote: post #304
saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me. What am I missing by not having inter…

I have a cheaper thermostat with wifi, a few months ago it alerted me that the temperature had been more than 5 degrees over setpoint for half an hour and something was probably broken. I was able to remotely shut off the unit and after I came home from work, sure enough the coils had iced over due to a refrigerant leak.

It was only hot enough for this to happen at the peak of the heat when I was at work. I was able to catch the problem early and fix it cheaply all for the cost of a thermostat (Emerson Sensi) about $40 more than a non wifi model.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#337

Post by heavyset_go »

shadowgovt wrote: post #276
api wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No relationship. Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience? I suspect the answer is a mix of "we want to invade privacy" and "it makes the devices cheaper to build since you can put really wimpy chips in them."

In the short run, it gives the company three direct benefits for making the technology work (besides the "They can advertise at you better" one that people like to drumbeat on). 1) Context is nearly invisible, and is constructed from dozens to hundreds of data points. Holding state on the user (not just from direct interaction with the agent, but from other services the agent can be aware of) makes a lot more context…

"Violate the user's privacy in order to build a product" is lazy engineering.

There are plenty of avenues to collect the data needed at that scale, it's just that none of them are as cheap as simply spying on users.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#338

Post by JCBarry »

oppositelock wrote: post #304
saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me. What am I missing by not having inter…

It is probably worth mentioning that the Google Nest Thermostats are one of the only Nest devices without a microphone.

Source: https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9330256?hl=en

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#339

Post by willyt »

skrause wrote: post #180
soulofmischief wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is active on all iDevices, and everyone with a laptop at your place is a mole. Do you expect to altogether prevent people from bringing computing devices into your home? If you are not a state target, then that is just silly. Focus your malcontent on the real bad actors, not their victims.

> I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is active on all iDevices This is not true, voice-activated Siri is a setting as well and turned off on my iPhone.

Also, 'Hey Siri' is supposedly processed locally on the phone using the Neural Engine part of Apples custom ARM chip so it should only upload voice data after you have said 'Hey Siri' or held down the home button to activate it. You can test this if you put the phone in airplane mode or go somewhere with no reception and say 'hey siri', it still recognises that you want to ask it something but just presents a message saying 'internet not available'

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#340

Post by mikepurvis »

mey wrote: post #322
oppositelock wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me. What am I missing by not having inter…

I value privacy, my nest thermostat is the only IoT device in my house that talks to the internet or can be accessed remotely without a VPN. What I find most valuable is it programs itself. Am I cold? Turn it up a bit, hot? Turn it down a bit. Suddenly I have stopped having to adjust it at all. Even as life has changed. It has some nice other features, such as preheating/cooling, telling me how long it will take to g…

To be fair, most of that doesn't require the internet— it would be perfectly possible to build a simple learning thermostat that was offline, or perhaps was only periodically online (eg, dumping a compact data log while it's connected to your laptop for its yearly firmware update).

I feel the same way about voice assistants. Recognition can be done locally— playing your playlists or turning the lights on and off should require no internet connection. Updating a todo list or calendar, maybe, but then it should be an API call to that service provider, indistinguishable from an action originating in any other third-party app.

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