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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#331

Post by jimmaswell »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #294
Hermel wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Sorry, no. This is just reckless. I'm trying hard to assume good faith here. "Wait and see" is a good approach to see whether your new electric city bus line is working or whether people prefer your website logo in red. You can never, ever take back what became basic necessities on a nation level while being even remotely democratic. Once people have it, they won't give it back. And you seriously think Facebook is to…

I could say it's hard to assume good faith from you. You're making ridiculous leaps. We'd be stuck still riding horses and buggies if people had your mindset in the early 1900's.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#332

Post by Hermel »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #294
Hermel wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Sorry, no. This is just reckless. I'm trying hard to assume good faith here. "Wait and see" is a good approach to see whether your new electric city bus line is working or whether people prefer your website logo in red. You can never, ever take back what became basic necessities on a nation level while being even remotely democratic. Once people have it, they won't give it back. And you seriously think Facebook is to…

Why are you so convinced that everyone would immediately want to use Libra? Do you think the Euro is such a mess? If that’s really the case, wouldn’t some people using an alternate currency be a step forward?

If Libra is going to be more economically than a typical bank, that will take many years and give plenty of time to react in case of problems. Also, it should first be up to the people for themselves to decide what means of payment they are using. The government should only intervene when the market fails.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#334

Post by espadrine »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #268
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

> I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these

My reading of ECB publications makes me believe that they don’t want to block these.

Ultimately, governments are mandated to protect the wealth of their electorate. A system in which they have no recourse, even indirectly, against volatility (the preservation of wealth) and stability (the preservation of payment services) is one that they must supersede.

SWIFT was forced to block transfers to Iran. Libra is like SWIFT, but with more control, as they also act as the RTGS (real-time gross settlement system).

Imagine if your country’s currency stopped working because it was added to sanctions lists. Or got increased fees.

A private company is ultimately subdued by the government of the countries it is incorporated in. They apply laws and executive orders against them. This kind of power asymmetry between countries is dangerous.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#336

Post by Paperweight »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #245
dannyr wrote: post #90

I dislike Facebook but I kind of feel sorry for them now because any ambitious thing that they'll attempt will probably be blocked by governments now. Facebook and Zuckerberg deserves it though.

It was ambitious, yes. It was also blatantly obvious at the point of inception of the idea itself that government would become a problem. They exist for the exact purpose (among other purposes) to prevent this exact idea from working (at least unregulated and without a proper banking license). All of the recent history and the laws made this obvious. It is truly astonishing that Facebook haven't thought about this be…

Once it becomes the currency that all the kids use for black market transactions (e.g. selling used items in facebook marketplace) it will be as hard to stop as trying to ban transactions denominated in US dollars instead of Euros.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#337

Post by lostlogin »

bko wrote: post #265
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> Hey do you mind if we just skip the paperwork part and just control currency, while actually being a social media tech giant This is a gross mischaracterization of what Libra is. Libra is a token that's backed 1 to 1 on some basket of currencies and mostly government bonds. The Libra foundation makes money by taking a portion of the investment return to fund themselves, much like a brokerage takes a bit of the retu…

I’ll stick to using my money as money thanks. It works fine.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#338

Post by blattimwind »

eastendguy wrote: post #330
ThomPete wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is notoriously anti credit cards so no surprise when it comes to them. Its a stupid move of course but my guess is that they are worried it will be successful and threaten the EURO.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

I'd wager that about 90 % of "credit card transactions" in Germany are actually Girocard transactions. Virtually every bank card is a Girocard.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#339

Post by marksomnian »

Jerry2 wrote: post #168
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #2

Best thing I've read on Libra: https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/06/24/971554-facebook-bitcoin...

Love this quote: > As Sarah Jamie Lewis, the director of the Canadian nonprofit Open Privacy, put it: “Can’t wait for a cryptocurrency with the ethics of Uber, the censorship resistance of Paypal, and the centralization of Visa, all tied together under the proven privacy of Facebook.”

Surely she meant decentralisation, though? Visa is anything but decentralised.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#340

Post by wbl »

arethuza wrote: post #292
dmoy wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> portion of the investment return I'm not super on top of a lot of the details here, but I thought Libra was like a currency. What investment return?

Isn't it highly likely that any crypto currency will be seen as a vehicle for speculation?

Libra is a money market fund with a unique way of tracking ownership. That's it.
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