Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work for a company that does kinda similar software stuff for vehicles - Uber has about two orders of magnitude more drivers than my company, but about three orders of magnitude more engineers - it's almost like they've got diseconomies of scale.
and how many countries and markets does your company operate in? Products do not just magically scale to 80+ countries.
Uber lays off 435 people
331–340 of 611 posts
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#332Probably some reality shaking out. Uber's engineering team puts out some impressive stuff, often as OSS. Their engineering blogs are regularly on HN. I've been genuinely surprised that they churn out some of these things and release them for free given their relatively extreme financial situation. In contrast to companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc. that have mountains of their own money to burn (rathe…
> that have mountains of their own money to burn (rather than investors') I totally agree with everything you're saying. But I'm going to quibble with your phrasing. Apple's cash reserves belong to the shareholders just as much as Uber's funding rounds. Too many CEOs operate under the mistaken belief that retained earnings is "play money" in the way that paid-in-capital is not. For investors, retained earnings are su…
My sentiment was that if a company is losing money consistently and egregiously, they are on borrowed time and a borrowed dime in very real terms as the trajectory is towards 0 - but the context is largely psychological. To your point, waste is waste. I agree wasting cash generated from profits is equivalent to wasting it from earnings.
I'd insist there is some practically relevant difference in there though.
Wasting money during a trajectory to bankruptcy creates a narrative of negligence that accelerates failure, while wasting it during a consistently profitable trajectory seems like sub-optimal management. The kind of thing that is theoretically identical, but in the real world of behavioral economics, the former seems more certain due to how easily the trajectory to failure can be estimated. The latter creates a weak narrative because of hidden information - nobody will ever know what "could have been" and so can never quantify how sub-optimal the management was.
E.g. nobody is dragging GE executives out of retirement/the grave to answer for long-term effects of sub-optimal management, and further nobody could prove at the time it was sub-optimal, only hypothesize. On the other hand, everything Elon Musk does at Tesla is torn apart and front page news, because they have a trajectory towards failure a high school student could easily calculate.
So "management's responsibility" to optimally allocate capital is sound in theory, but in the real world of imperfect and outright unknowable information, nobody ever really knows what optimal is. Sub-optimal comes to be expected as normal, but accelerating a trend towards failure is a powerful defining narrative. Somehow this matters.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…
While you're not wrong about most of this. uChat is actually built by a pretty large team https://eng.uber.com/uchat/
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…
While you're not wrong about most of this. uChat is actually built by a pretty large team https://eng.uber.com/uchat/
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
While you're not wrong about most of this. uChat is actually built by a pretty large team https://eng.uber.com/uchat/
How is Slack not suing Uber for uChat? The images on the link look like an exact copy.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#336Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#337Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
While you're not wrong about most of this. uChat is actually built by a pretty large team https://eng.uber.com/uchat/
> uChat is actually built by a pretty large team Which is even more scary. Why isn't uber laying all these people off and paying cash money for a real chat application? What competitive advantage does uber have maintaining a chat application?
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#339Hello Uber Engineer here! Obviously everything I say is personal experience and opinion. I think the layoffs were long overdue and should've happened sooner. There was a general understanding between my coworkers and I that Uber definitely over hired in 2016. Thanks to that a lot of engineers ran out of things to do which led to political infighting over roadmap, ridiculous redundant resourcing - every single team ha…
> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…
> hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman'
gets followed up immediately (almost inevitably, in my experience) with
> so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?"
...rather than, say, "hey, I googled and there are a few FOSS alternatives for 'group chat with history': Zulip, for one; Mattermost, for another. Let's see if either of those fit our needs. If they don't quite, though, let's also see if either one of them has a solid, customizable codebase to fix up!"
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
another issue was data domiciling and retention policies around 2016 when uber was evaluating slack.
Were these actual concerns that were raised by the actual legal council of the company, or were they issues invented by engineers who are not lawyers but suffer from engineers disease and think that knowing to code means they are experts in everything else? 'Cause I know plenty of those! I've worked in plenty of companies with engineers who think they are legal, privacy and security experts. If we made business decis…