Live data from Hacker News

People love working remotely

usefyi.com

331–340 of 369 posts

Re: People love working remotely

#331
post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

This has basically been the story of every job I've had, except instead of being 100% remote I was wfh once or twice per week. I'd join a company under the condition that they allowed flexible hours and wfh. Then 6 months later managers would change and all of a sudden the way we'd been operating would no longer be acceptable. Always the person leading the charge towards eliminating wfh and remote work is some non-te…

I've never understood these sorts of posts - surely at that point you just leave? You've effectively been fired anyway?

I mean, I've taken remote jobs for which I could well be living 200+ miles away. Saying 'come in to the office' - lol, sure, perhaps once a week or something for a catch up.

What gives?

If my boss suddenly decided to no longer employ me as a software developer and instead "pivoted" to making hand grenades or something equally random, well, yeah, bye then?

Re: People love working remotely

#332
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take private office and casual dress code over work from home. I live close to the city with a great commute but don't have space for a home office at home.

> casual dress code Haven't seen this as an issue for awhile. I'm old enough that when I started programming I had to wear a tie to work (it wasn't a 'tech' company). Over time and different jobs it changed to golf shirts and khakis to now where if anyone wears more than shorts/jeans and a t-shirt we think they are going on an interview.

Should clarify I'm not in tech. I dress business casual for 4/5 days. It takes a lot of time and effort to deal with selecting, matching, dry cleaning pants, ironing, etc and it's less comfortable than true casual. We don't meet clients so I don't see the issue, just conservatism.

Re: People love working remotely

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know both extroverts and introverts who are really bad at email type text communication.

Fair point. I was mostly just making the counter point, however to expand on this, at least with the email thread you can take longer to compose your response or go talk to someone about it if you think it's important. It's viewed a bit weirder to follow up a face-to-face meeting with your counter points in an email. But I actually just think communication is hard for a lot of people. Locking people in a room and exp…

Communication is a fundamentally hard problem. How to tell if a given semantic state has been replicated in the brain of the others. Really until people repeat back in their own words you have no idea; even then, they may have alarming different versions of some of the concepts used in the semantic state.

Re: People love working remotely

#334
post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

> The big boss said "a 15 minute fact-to-face is better than a multi-day email chain" I can't believe that people who are so out of touch with reality are still given so much responsibility at companies which they effectively unknowingly misuse to make everyone's life miserable. There's nothing wrong about a multi day email chain. Sometimes it's the best communication tool, because non-critical/important things can b…

A non-trivial number of very senior people simply cannot read or write. They can process information about other people very quickly in f2f interactions, but when things are written down they are at sea. Video is also significantly less useful for these people.

I have seen it in dozens, maybe hundreds, of execs I have interacted with over the years, including people I have worked very closely with.

Sometimes it is varieties of dyslexia, sometimes ADD. Could be any number of other "disorders."

It's not a preference/policy. It's just how they engage. Often it is best to recognize it, and engage with them on the terms that work best for them.

And of course this is not new. Illiterate leaders have been with us since there has been literacy.

Re: People love working remotely

#336
post #19

Elephant in the room: how many of these people would prefer it to having a private office ? Strangely, this article/survey/infographic never mentions that option. I'd prefer remote work, too, over sitting in an open floorplan office, but I'd much prefer an actual office to either one. The easy "why" is: despite all the drawbacks, a lot of us will do pretty much anything to get out of an open floorplan.

I have a private office, but we also work from home two days a week (often more than that as various things come up for people). I come in to the office every day because my wife stays home with our 3 kids. Work from home when home is four people that want your attention doesn't work out very well. The few times I tried it, everyone just got frustrated that I was present but not available. Maybe in a couple years whe…

...until summer rolls around...

Having worked from home when only a partner OR 2 kids were present, I can only imagine the additional pressure faced by that situation.

But speaking as a single parent of school-aged kids, summer vacation is... a challenge.

Re: People love working remotely

#337
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equal playing field.

You’re missing it. Check your textually-adept privilege. Seriously. I’ve always been a very good writer but people in STEM often aren’t.

And then when it's face to face, you have people who aren't lingually adept, what then? Take someone who speaks English as a second language. They may not be able to process what's being said in a face to face as fast as the topic is moving, but in an email thread they can take their time to read it all, and compose a response (which may take longer for them due to English being a second language). It's not as simple as either of you make it seem.

Re: People love working remotely

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has basically been the story of every job I've had, except instead of being 100% remote I was wfh once or twice per week. I'd join a company under the condition that they allowed flexible hours and wfh. Then 6 months later managers would change and all of a sudden the way we'd been operating would no longer be acceptable. Always the person leading the charge towards eliminating wfh and remote work is some non-te…

I've never understood these sorts of posts - surely at that point you just leave? You've effectively been fired anyway? I mean, I've taken remote jobs for which I could well be living 200+ miles away. Saying 'come in to the office' - lol, sure, perhaps once a week or something for a catch up. What gives? If my boss suddenly decided to no longer employ me as a software developer and instead "pivoted" to making hand gr…

In the US, that could be construed as "Constructive Dismissal," where your job changes so much you have to resign. In California, at least, you'd have a strong claim for unemployment while you looked for your next (remote!) job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal

Re: People love working remotely

#339
post #67

This piece has the feeling of being written by "every Friday is Hawaiian T-shirt day" after his employer went all remote and he needed a new task. I have worked remotely more than not and it's not ideal. I suspect that if teleportation machines existed, then remote work wouldn't be a thing. Once you leave the office for the day (or leave the house to go to the office) then the logistical problems start (where do I fi…

okmokmz said:

> there are a ton of assumptions in this argument, and you seem to be projecting a lot of your personal beliefs and feeling as well

I agree and I wanted to walk through the differences in my life (as I'm 80% remote):

> If you don't have a dedicated quiet office area then it gets real difficult.

I agree, but it's not hard to create this environment at home. Buy a house with one more bedroom than you need and make it an office. That's what I've done.

> Pets are a distraction.

Our dog doesn't come into my office when I'm working.

> Other people in the home are a distraction (and it's not their fault, they have the right to "be at home".)

I've got three kids. My wife homeschools our children, so they are home all the time. They're all elementary and middle-school age. They are going to be kids and do what they do, even if I asked them not to. And yet this is almost never a distraction for me. Even on calls 90% of the time my audio is far cleaner than my co-workers who are in an open office.

This does require understanding and support from my wife, but she's an adult and we're on the same page. This is what we, together, want. When my office door is locked I'm "at work" and she and the kids don't bother me except for emergencies, just like she wouldn't call me at work if I was in the office except for emergencies. On the other hand, I get to "come home" for lunch every day.

> If you have a significant other living at home full time and that person is in a grumpy mood, then good luck.

As mentioned in the last point, when I'm in my office I'm "at work." Grumpy or not my wife isn't going to bother me. This isn't something special about remote. It's a normal part of maturing in a relationship. Being grumpy is not a good enough reason to call your spouse at work in the middle of their day. It's no different if I'm remote.

> I feel that people who can make it work are those who either live in a cave with no other living creatures or they have the bread to get a big enough house and funds to create an operations center in a dedicated room.

OK, snark aside, having a dedicated space does make everything easier. But first this isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things if you are intentional about it. The cost of housing can vary quite a bit, but being remote gives you a lot more flexibility to find an affordable, comfortable home that has space for a dedicated office.

Second, even without a dedicated room for an office you can make it work. For several years I worked from my bedroom. I had a corner where I setup my "office" and during the work day the bedroom was my office. I will concede that there are many things about this that are not ideal, but it's not as black-and-white-bad-idea as you're making it out to be. It's not like the office is a magically ideal workplace without its own drawbacks. Personally I would much rather deal with the inconveniences of a less than ideal home office than those of the open plan office that is common nowadays. It's not even a comparison for me.

> The communication you do have is much more mercenary.

This just doesn't match my experience at all. Communication does require more effort in a remote setting, that's true. But in my experience being in the office is not a guarantee that healthy communication with happen. Putting in the effort to communicate intentionally (not just a byproduct of co-location) is valuable either way.

I will concede that face-to-face is the king for building relationships. However, this is not a daily need. Also I don't need work to provide a social setting. I've already got more than enough friends and family to "socialize" with outside of work. I do value good relationships with my coworkers and I do like having a chance to meet them in person but we don't need to be BFFs to have a good and productive working relationship.

> you don't get to see her world class key short-cut skills from which you could open up a whole new way of thinking about your own operations.

1. No but I can read Tim's blog post about the same subject.

2. I find it a bit rude to be watching other people's monitors as they work so I wouldn't see this anyways.

> You don't see the real pressure your boss or manager is under and you get far less information about how things work because they won't be casually confiding in you at the water cooler.

1. Intentional communication addresses some of this.

2. Being in the same location doesn't necessarily get you this. I'm thinking, for example, of the time half the engineering team got laid off on a Friday with no warning. This was a "collaborative open office" company that didn't offer remote.

Communication is always critical for a healthy and productive organization. Co-locating provides enough chatter built-in to obfuscate poor communication patterns. And yet poor communication remains one of the main causes of failed and over-budget software systems, even in co-located teams. Remote just makes it more obvious when teams don't know how to communicate.

> You don't need a NORAD display to show major events and weather conditions around the world to see what challenges your collaborators will be up against in getting things done the coming day.

What? I'm not even looking at the weather for the city I'm in. If my coworkers have a challenge we just talk about it.

> Remote work kind of sucks.

Work in general these days kind of sucks. In my opinion remote is the saving grace of our industry. I'm at the point I won't even consider a job unless it has either a private office or allows a minimum of 60% remote.

Re: People love working remotely

#340
post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

Why are open-plan offices being pushed so hard, relentlessly, everywhere, all the time - when nearly everybody hates working in them, and all evidence points to them being unproductive and harmful?

real estate is expensive?
Post reply on HN