Live data from Hacker News

The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

newyorker.com

331–340 of 812 posts

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#331
post #297
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've just voiced the thing I dislike most about the HN. And I do not fully agree with "Gackle and Bell, by contrast, practice a personal, focussed, and slow approach to moderation". The faceless "we" they love so much does not appear very personal to me. Disclaimer: I have an axe to grind having my account with 9k+ karma and dating back to 2009 banned for whatever. Despite that I am trying my best to look at the si…

Agreed, HN's lack of transparency is slowly killing it. You can see the discussions becoming more one-dimensional every day.

You're being downvoted because you're hitting on a trope/cliche that's called out in the rules, and while I doubt HN is dying from a user engagement perspective, I do believe the comments are less filled with value than they have been in the past, given how negativity dang sees conflict.

Healthy conflict is good, but I've participated in healthy conflict here and was stopped by dang because of it.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#332
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current top comment. IIRC it was fluctuating wildly while it was on the front page. After it's gone, comments can get reshuffled, because some people might keep replying/reading/up&downvoting (arguably those with more of a "vested interest" - likely those that disagree with the original article)

Doesn't that provide more evidence that it is not the prevailing majority, then?

Also, does it suggest that the most engaged HN readers (who come early to topic discussions) have a starkly different opinion to late comers?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#334

I think it's all our own fault if we ever expected expert political philosophy or scientific debate from a group of people who mostly just, at the end of the day, program websites and phone apps. A high percentage of IT, software engineering, and professional advice on HN is very valuable, but the percentage of other kinds of commentary that's valuable is much lower. I occasionally also get sucked into the sorts of d…

To save you some scrolling: if you click the little [-] the thread will collapse. I've campaigned to make the default an all-collapsed page but it did not get much support.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#335
post #187

How do you know their names, how do you know there are only 2? One of the problems for me about HN is the secretive nature of moderation.

Because 2T1Qka0rEiPr read the article :-)

My only question now is why can't I flag my own comment ;o)

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#336
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... the HN readership is in a position of power, and shouldn't routinely be spared the anguish of being reminded of their responsibility. What kind of power do you think we have? We can't even convince our friends and family to stay the fuck off of Facebook. Aside from the fact that some people from our industry have a shitton of money I don't see us having any kind of social influence.

I understood this to mean the power of appreciating the societal consequences of technology, and the responsibility of educating others about those consequences, both positive and negative.

That's not power, that's a curse!

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as this article shows, abdicating the responsibility by keeping the topics sterile is similarly suspect, in the sense of fiddling while Rome burns. I believe a willingness to confront the ugly sides of technology with some courage of conviction would eventually be recognised, even if it may occasionally involve a bit of a mess. Absolutely true. The failure of mods (and even pg?) to recognize this is the single…

A mature HN reader skilled in technology, is least likely to undergo an emotional/identity-driven flight of fancy about political issues pertaining to technology Heh, except for anything programming language related, what the best web framework to use is, whether end-to-end encryption actually works or is just security theatre, etc. There are lots of technical topics that people attach their identity to and would loo…

> but you can't possibly claim HN bans politics when maybe 20-30% of the stories discussed here are political in nature.

Well, many of the most crucial stories have been nipped in the bud when speculation is flying every which way. I'd argue that the brief moment of uncomfortable uncertainty, when speculation is flying, is actually the most valuable point for analysis in the trajectory of any issue... before those with the power to influence have had a chance to frame the issue the way they see fit, not letting it go to waste to further their goals, etc.

HN mods find this kind of unmoored analysis very discomfiting, and they act with a nearly instinctual zeal to put a stop to it. Political discussion is fine as long as it is in the shadow of a conceptual framework that is considered authoritative. This is by definition a highly conservative, top down, anti-intellectual view. That mods view comments that contradict it as "flame wars" (rude acts) illustrates that they are anchored in an archaic manners culture that worships hierarchy and authority. FWIW we all know there are HN users who can send a message to a mod and get a user shadow banned no questions asked.

Since there are so few mods it is totally plausible that their own psychological quirks and desire to fit in would have a significant impact on their moderation patterns.

> except for anything programming language related, what the best web framework to use is...

I don't think this disagrees with my point, since most often the thing that is being objected to has not been used extensively by the objector. Bike shedding is less a form of political discussion than it is a result of tech culture that seeks authoritative absolutes in a world that only offers relative trade-offs. The worst offenders I've worked with are the sort who really wish there were a religious leader who would declare that programmers who use Mongodb are going to hell :), and they are not people I want on my team.

For moderation, the only fair system is one where all moderation decisions are backed up by a public note explaining what happened and why, both for story promotion, burial, and penal decisions about users such as shadow bans.

Surely being a mod is challenging. I'd expect that combining the challenging roles of judge, jury, and executioner into one would exact an emotional toll.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#338

Hacker News is a well-moderated community, but it's illustrative to see where Hacker News fails at moderation. While Hacker News is great at protecting the community from disruptive individuals, it tends to fall down when protecting unpopular individuals against the community turned mob. I support Hacker News moderating itself however it chooses. However, if we are looking at it as a moderation model for large, open,…

Very much this. I have been rightfully corrected by dang before, and it made me reflect and adjust my general approach to commenting online. I have also been very wrongfully dealt with a few times too though, and it made me very hesitant to comment further. I am thankful for a moderated space (there are other areas for unmoderated space, but those are under attack these days) and they do a good job most of the time, which is good enough for me.

The backbone companies thing is the more important point you make imho, and is why discussion about what the modern public square really is and how the level of corporate dominance of media and the abuse of third-party doctrine allows the silencing of dissent. So a private company can censor whoever they want right?.. but how far does that go? First it starts with cloudflare, and then eventually it goes down to the ISP level... and that seems like a very dangerous slippery slope to me.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#339
post #244
post #232

> In April, when a story about Katie Bouman, an M.I.T. researcher who helped develop a technology that captured the first photo of a black hole, rose to the front page, users combed through her code on GitHub in an effort to undermine the weight of her contributions. Hmm. I guess citation needed?

This seems to have been either a complete, sensationalistic fabrication, or at best, a totally negligent misread. See for yourself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632086 The thread began, "If Katie was a man do you think people would be going through git histories and their published papers trying to determine if she is being over-credited for her achievements?" And it's not referring to others on HN; as the…

Scroll down to the very bottom of that discussion thread and unfurl the flagged threads.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19634262

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632301

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#340
post #178

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

> both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right" both and neither. Partisan discussions, or even any kind of bitching at all ... are outright discouraged. I often step out of line in this regard and don't always agree, but I'm also confident that folk on "the other side" face the same kind of treatment. Though frustrating at times, I respect that it keeps things clean and helps cut out a lot of nonsense, of which…

Once tried to step up and say that a certain article should not be on Hacker News.

Got down-voted down to the abysses.

Obviously, the article was an anti-trump article.

Post reply on HN