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Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

engadget.com

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Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#331

Post by magduf »

holy_city wrote: post #177
magduf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see the problem with any of this stuff. I like physical escape keys, I really don't want expensive Bluetooth headphones, and I like having a headphone jack on my phone. I also like being able to repair and upgrade my equipment. So what do I do? I don't buy Apple stuff. Then I read discussions like this one and chuckle at all the people griping about all these things, and then continuing to buy and use…

Part of the thing you'll see on forums like this towards apple is the fact that there is a disproportionate number of developers who for one reason or another need to use MacOS professionally, such as developing iOS apps. A lot of us use Macs because we have to in order to target Apple platforms with our products. They may not have a monopoly, but they do control ~40-50% of the smartphone market in the West and force…

>there is a disproportionate number of developers who for one reason or another need to use MacOS professionally, such as developing iOS apps. A lot of us use Macs because we have to in order to target Apple platforms with our products.

Then you need to stop whining and use the tool you have to use to do your job.

I don't like Windows, but there aren't many jobs out there where I don't have to use it in some capacity. Luckily, I get to do my development in Linux, but I still have to use Windows for Office applications, Outlook email, running Linux VMs, etc., so I can't get away from it entirely. It's one of the things I put up with so I can make a living, just like I also have to put up with a commute, getting up in the morning, etc.

If you don't like developing iOS apps, then move into another line of work. I don't have any interest in developing Windows apps in C#, so I don't go into that field, and stick with work which lets me do at least some of my work in Linux. But to be fair, if I was forced to choose between writing C# .NET Windows 10 apps and cleaning toilets for a living, I'd take the Windows job.

>A lot of us are frustrated by the fact that with each generation, Apple has made an inferior product that costs more money at every tier of their Mac catalog.

That's their entire business model: sell fancy-looking stuff at inflated prices to non-technical people that they're able to operate, and who also are willing to spend a lot of money on that image and that brand name. It's like getting a job as a Bentley mechanic and complaining that Bentleys aren't as practical as a Toyota or F150.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#332

Post by xtracto »

wlesieutre wrote: post #51
hu3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still salty about the magsafe.

MagSafe was nice, but I'm a big fan of being able to use an industry standard $30 charger with 60W USB-C, 3x USB-A ports, and a removable charging cable. Having to replace a whole $80 proprietary charging brick because the cable connection frayed was a pretty shitty deal.

Hah, the new Macbook laptop with only USB-C connectors: Slimmer and weights 2Kg less. But now you have to take with you 3kg of USB-C to everything (hdmi, mini-DP, USB-A, thunderbolt, ethernet, MicroSD, SD) adapters, each one costing you $15 at least. Oh, and this "feature" costs you $100 extra on the new MacBook laptop.

I hate Apple.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#333

Post by magduf »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #293
magduf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see the problem with any of this stuff. I like physical escape keys, I really don't want expensive Bluetooth headphones, and I like having a headphone jack on my phone. I also like being able to repair and upgrade my equipment. So what do I do? I don't buy Apple stuff. Then I read discussions like this one and chuckle at all the people griping about all these things, and then continuing to buy and use…

do you use Linux and don’t need access to let’s say Adobe software? Or do you use windows and don’t mind being actively spied on? MacOS and Apples seemingly honest dedication to privacy are the only reason I use Apple hardware. Apart from hackintosh type solutions I don’t see a way to have both.

I use Windows, and I'm not actively spied on (at least by MS, my employer is another matter). Enterprise editions of Windows don't have spyware (nor would it work behind corporate firewalls, or on closed networks).

At home, I use Linux. No, I don't "need" access to Adobe software. I do my work at work, using the tools they provide me.

>MacOS and Apples seemingly honest dedication to privacy

Seemingly. You can get real privacy if you use Linux, and you can use it on all kinds of hardware.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#334

Post by robert_tweed »

scarface74 wrote: post #234
robert_tweed wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true, I am also put off by the increased attack surface of a proprietary embedded OS (watchOS) running in the touchbar, outside the control of the main OS and by extension, not under my control either. Given how much everyone around here hates similar things like UEFI and the Intel IME (with good reason), I'm surprised this one seems to slip under the radar. Probably because everyone is much more incens…

The T1 chip also serves as an authentication chip, a disk controller, and can be used for video encoding/decoding.

That's kinda the problem. It's a secure enclave (potentially a good thing) but a far too complex one with too many responsibilities and capabilities.

I am of the opinion that the secure enclave for fingerprint reading should be something that updates ideally never, and requires a hardware jumper to be set if one is absolutely necessary.

Ideally I'd like the firmware to be open source too. Those are two related but different issues though.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#335

Post by gonehome »

notafraudster wrote: post #39

To me the bigger news here is killing the MacBook. It's a weird product -- crazy overpriced, and with a bunch of concessions in terms of the design, but I like that it's extremely light (33% lighter than a MacBook Air) and has no fan. I had hoped never to buy another laptop with a fan again. Yes, I know performance sucks, which is why I run most of my code on a server instead of locally on my computer. I think really…

I agree, I wish they would have killed the Air and kept the Macbook.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#336

Post by nawgszy »

eropple wrote: post #78
lloeki wrote: post #61

I am a developer. The Touch Bar is useless to me. I remapped Caps lock to Esc expecting to be annoyed, but still hit Esc nonetheless because it works. And I deftly adjust volume using the Touch Bar slider using press-and-slide (not tap then pick-and-slide), relying on the += key for tactile positioning (but the position itself is largely muscle memory by now) I am also a musician. The Touch Bar is fantastic to adjust…

> The Touch Bar is fantastic to adjust tuneables in GarageBand, without the gorilla arm or wobbly screen effect you get on touchscreens. I futzed around with the touch bar in Logic when I got one and wrote it off almost immediately. Logic Remote (which works with GarageBand, AFAIK) already exists and works with an iPad. Clear labels, clear text, manipulating multiple elements easily at once--it's a better solution th…

> hand-wreckingly shallow keyboard travel

Now, I don't disagree with your sentiment, touch bar is definitely a nuisance without any superior use case over the buttons that were there before... But why do you think this keyboard wrecks hands? It is definitely the fastest keyboard I've typed on, and shallow keyboards are definitely inherently easier on the hands by any metric I can think of

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#337

Post by lh7777 »

Marsymars wrote: post #271
notafraudster wrote: post #39

To me the bigger news here is killing the MacBook. It's a weird product -- crazy overpriced, and with a bunch of concessions in terms of the design, but I like that it's extremely light (33% lighter than a MacBook Air) and has no fan. I had hoped never to buy another laptop with a fan again. Yes, I know performance sucks, which is why I run most of my code on a server instead of locally on my computer. I think really…

> I think really the best other options without a fan are all Chromebooks. I own both a 12" MacBook and a Pixelbook, and the Pixelbook is notably chunkier/heavier. (And every other comparable Chromebook is even worse.) Next best fanless option is probably a Surface device.

I'm a big fan of thin, fanless machines, and have both a 12" MacBook and a Surface Pro 5. While it's much less powerful, I find the MacBook more pleasant to use (even ignoring MacOS vs. Windows 10) -- way better trackpad, keyboard and screen are rigidly attached to each other, wakes from sleep faster and more reliably. The Surface Book solves most of these problems (and, IIRC, has fanless variants), but I think it's too bulky due to the 13.5" screen and hinge design. I haven't seriously considered a Chromebook due to the software limitations or the iPad due to the lack of a mouse cursor (also software limitations).

In short, with the 12" MacBook discontinued, nobody's making a notebook I'm interested in at the moment. That's fine, though, as my 2015 MacBook is still working great (especially since I just had the battery replaced) and presumably I can still get a refurb if I drop this one in a lake or something.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#338

Post by eropple »

nawgszy wrote: post #336
eropple wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Touch Bar is fantastic to adjust tuneables in GarageBand, without the gorilla arm or wobbly screen effect you get on touchscreens. I futzed around with the touch bar in Logic when I got one and wrote it off almost immediately. Logic Remote (which works with GarageBand, AFAIK) already exists and works with an iPad. Clear labels, clear text, manipulating multiple elements easily at once--it's a better solution th…

> hand-wreckingly shallow keyboard travel Now, I don't disagree with your sentiment, touch bar is definitely a nuisance without any superior use case over the buttons that were there before... But why do you think this keyboard wrecks hands? It is definitely the fastest keyboard I've typed on, and shallow keyboards are definitely inherently easier on the hands by any metric I can think of

I'm a keyboard pounder; it's just the way I've always typed. The best laptop keyboard I've found is the Alienware 13/15. The next best are any of the standard-travel Lenovos.

1mm travel keys just leave me thumping my fingertips off the laptop chassis all the time. It hurts.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#339

Post by scarface74 »

robert_tweed wrote: post #334
scarface74 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The T1 chip also serves as an authentication chip, a disk controller, and can be used for video encoding/decoding.

That's kinda the problem. It's a secure enclave (potentially a good thing) but a far too complex one with too many responsibilities and capabilities. I am of the opinion that the secure enclave for fingerprint reading should be something that updates ideally never, and requires a hardware jumper to be set if one is absolutely necessary. Ideally I'd like the firmware to be open source too. Those are two related but di…

It’s not like the chip isn’t based on years of work. It based on the same technology and design that’s been in iPhones since 2013.

Re: Apple kills the non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

#340

Post by d1zzy »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #24

This thread is going to dissolve into a pile-up on the Touch Bar, so I wanna jump in front of this. Readers of this site are mostly “hackers,” however mutated or dumbed-down that term has become over the years, correct? Everyone here has their windows and spaces just so, a full complement of shortcuts and trackpad gestures, and if they're serious about the Macintosh tools like TextExpander. As standard as GUIs are, w…

Maybe it depends on how you type and rest your hand over the keyboard. For me I've had a macbook pro with touch bar for the last 6+ months and it hasn't gotten better at all. But in all honesty it's not just the touch bar, it's also the extra sensitive touchpad. For example you may notice extra spaces int his message or spaces in the middle of the words, that because of the touch pad, I think (I can't even be sure of what's going on but I've never had any typing issues like this in the past 30+ years since I've been using computers, starting with really crappy non-PC 8 bit computer keyboards all the way to fancy gamer keyboards).

It's not getting better over time, it's forcing me to constantly have to correct my spelling so now I just keep typing at a minimum on this computer and I'm waiting to get rid of this crappy device at the earliest possibility.

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