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Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

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Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#331

I'm really thankful I haven't yet had a job where all I'm developing is new ways to force people to see ads. Imagine working on a 'feature' like this for weeks or months, and the end result is simply that people who don't want to see ads now have to see ads.

I did this. I helped build the Air Installer network. I truly regret it. If you look up that name, all you get is people worried that it installed viruses or malware (guess what... it did) and how to remove it. The other results you'll see include the owners trying to sell its virtues. As though it's anything other than a way to exploit unsuspecting internet users for money. I was young and naive, and I didn't think…

I'd urge you to not be too hard on yourself.

As much as people don't enjoy the morals of adtech, you got to experience scale, and apparently highly reliable code whilst early in your career. You can't blame yourself as a self described "young and naive" person for what others did later.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me ads are fundamentally about misleading you, manipulating you, or in short: making you do something that you wouldn't do otherwise. This to me is morally wrong on a base level. Advertisement is an attempt to attack/manipulate your vulnerable mammal brain to make you do something against your interest (be it buying a product, voting on someone, etc). In other words, to do something that you wouldn't do rationally…

This is a very immature view of advertising, that, unfortunately many advertisers share -- and it leads to scummy ads, with no eye on the long term relationship with the person viewing the ad. However, many ads are not deceptive in any way, and instead simply offer something of value to people who may be interested, without any deceit, psychological trick, or ulterior motive. Just because there are bad ads does not m…

I don't believe so.

Advertisements done right should be a passive consumption model.

I want this -> bunch of leads for what you are looking for.

Advertisements nowadays are focused around an active attention-consuming model. You have companies fighting for any in they can to get themselves situated at the forefront of your attention.

There is really no excuse for it, and the dark paths attach has opened in terms of advancing surveillance technology, and harboring an insatiable appetite for as much information on potential buyer's as possible has frankly ruined any credibility or claim to benignity that I could be bothered to extend to the industry.

I could even tolerate blatant puffery if advertising would just cut out all the 1984-tier privacy destroying behavior.

I don't mind ads. I mind mental intrusiveness and privacy invasion 24/7/365.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#333
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If my attention has value, then I get to determine what that value is. That's exactly what you're doing by using the product. You could spend your time doing something else, or paying to skip ads instead.

Where can I pay Facebook for the not-creepy, no-ads version?

They don't offer that, but there are many other ways to communicate with people that you can choose from.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#334
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very immature view of advertising, that, unfortunately many advertisers share -- and it leads to scummy ads, with no eye on the long term relationship with the person viewing the ad. However, many ads are not deceptive in any way, and instead simply offer something of value to people who may be interested, without any deceit, psychological trick, or ulterior motive. Just because there are bad ads does not m…

If I were king, all ads would have to be black text on white background, containing ONLY the name of the product/service, its description and advertised merits. The description would have to consist of well-defined and falsifiable statements only.

If you go to your local supermarket, you will see many branded items with varied fonts and pictures. This packaging is essentially an ad for the item. If you removed that, which you could do, as some brands like Brandless have done, people would not know what to buy. The packaging itself provides value. So too with ads online.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#335
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple makes massive profits on the hardware they sell you, that's how they can do it. The software companies that give it away "for free" (Facebook, Google) don't have any way other than advertising or selling/using data to make money.

Where do I sign up for a free android phone?

The _software_ companies give [their _software_] away for free.

You can build a phone if you want, install Android on it, and sell it without paying Google anything. There's a ton of Chinese companies doing just that; Amazon does it too.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#336
post #312
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This particular "creative solution" is adding wasted data transmission and slowing down page responsiveness to _everyone_'s use of the site to combat a few people that feel strongly about their privacy or sanity of mind[1]. All of these tactics are terrible. [1] Skipping over ads takes effort from your brain and it seems to be training us all to be worse readers. In the modern world of sponsored messages and content…

It's their site. If they want to deliver information I'm sure they don't consider it wasted. You talk as if people go to Facebook to receive data transmissions as efficiently as possible. I've never met a development company which cares about that at such a low level. Especially if it means more exposure on their website for ads, which is how they get money. Skimming is taught in school from a young age. It's an appr…

> Skimming is taught in school from a young age. It's an appropriate skill. It doesn't take much brain power to read something in a detailed way or in a quick way. The notion that we are so susceptible to our brains being influenced by things like this is ridiculous.

I learned to read in kindergarten. Between private kindergarten, public grade school, and state university, I have _never_ been taught to skim things quickly; rather I was taught what was called _reading comprehension_ where we were told to read a small story of 1-2 paragraphs, occasionally being given a short amount of time to read it only once, and were then asked questions about it; later this turned into class discussions, where we occasionally debated wording that would likely have been missed entirely if one was skimming. I have _never_ had a teacher tell me that I should skim a text, and I was in fact instructed not to do so as it would cause me to miss things. As a rather fast reader in school, I was occasionally suspected of not reading an assignment thoroughly and told to read the whole thing.

Having said all that, there is a great deal to be said on how things you _don't_ think about affect you. You don't have to be actively paying attention to something to remember it, otherwise billboards wouldn't exist; neither would the ads on the back inner/outer cover of a magazine or the back cover of a newspaper. Nor would product placement be a thing.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#337

This example is likely not specifically targeting ad blockers, but ad scrapers for transparency: https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-blocks-ad-transp... > Our tool recognized ads by searching for that word. Last year, Facebook added invisible letters to the HTML code of the site. So, to a computer, the word registered as “SpSonSsoSredS.” That article also links to this tweet in that paragraph.

That has to destroy accessibility. I mean, a human using a screen reader is nearly equivalent to a scraper, so the whole thing seems problematic.

Isn't a screen reader generally a third party program? Software like a browser has no idea if the click event comes from a local mouse or other software. Telling the difference between what type of software specifically, like RDP/VNC/TeamViewer, AutoIT/autoclicker, and accessibility software is even more improbable.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#338
All of this talk about decieptful advertising; this only applies if you are a stupid person, or a young child that hasn't been taught differrently. A person who believes what they see on TV is real.

Most rational people 10 years old or above know enough to know that you should research a product before you buy it. What is the commercial/ad actually claiming? What does the fine print say? warranty? If a person is buying a product based on advertisement claims alone, that person has an issue, not the advertiser.

To be honest, I like that these companies are spending so much time trying to identify products that I might be interested in, but haven't had the time to research enough about it to make an educated choice. Google turns my searches into ads embedded into email, or searches themselves. I ask Alexa about something or the Alexa wikiHow app, and the next time I'm shopping on Amazon, I have targeted ads for those same items I had begun research on.

It's a beautiful time saver in my opinion. Once you've narrowed your search down to a specific item, you can read reviews, compare it to similar items, do a search on that same item.

That's the same tactic with selling data; the company purchasing the data is trying to connect consumers with product. If the consumer doesn't do their research and buys a shitty product, there are still several layers of consumer protection where the customer can be reimbursed.

As far as predatory gaming ads and games geared towards kids... don't give your kid access to your credit card, buy them a gift card. It's not that difficult. There are too many stupid people on this planet because technology has broken survival of the fittest; allowing stupid people to live long enough to breed more stupid people.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#339
post #26

I wonder at which point will we just stream pages as interactive video content with a text optimized codec. Most pages on the internet are bloated to the point where it might just make sense. (I am not advocating, I am predicting)

If you stream movies from sites like 123movies, they play a similar obfuscation game but are moving towards your hypothetical. While many players, despite deeply nested html, still point directly to where the content is hosted (ex, a file on openload.co), an increasing number take your mentioned approach and load the content as a blob so folks won't bypass their ads.

IIRC you can directly download a blob from the blob internals page; I think you can also see them somewhere in the developer console, and I've got a bookmarklet that allows feeding a blob URI into it for download.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#340

Anyone who has written a few scrappers knows how brutally ineffective this is. Yelp tried to pull the same thing and it took me about 3 minutes to rectify my "for fun" scraper. It's also really not that difficult to write a smart scraper that you say, "Look for these things in this post. However you find them, replicate it for the others". Which is ultimately what I made my Yelp scraper do. If there's a pattern, I wi…

Hey there. Regarding the semi-automatic “look for these things in the post, and however you find them replicate for others”. I’m new to scrappers, do you have a good resource you could link on this? Thanks!
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