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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#331

Post by brentr »

randomhack wrote: post #305
mhartl wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let N be the number of great scientists. It would be sensible for the curriculum to include the n greatest scientists, where n N . Since Marie Curie always gets included in the textbooks, we can conclude either that she ranks as one of the n greatest scientists, even for very small n , or that the reasons for her inclusion go beyond her scientific accomplishments. Considering how few history textbooks mention (for ex…

You forgot to mention Turing :) Turing doesnt get much space in school textbooks. And von Neumann too despite being one of the giants of mathematics in 20th century.

Let's add Alonzo Church to that list.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#332

Post by mroman »

pg wrote: post #227
mechanical_fish wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read Paul Fussell's Wartime . Or Eugene Sledge's With the Old Breed - At Peleliu and Okinawa . Then you'll know why I'm happy to study war from my armchair, despite the fact that I'll never really know what combat is like. It's also good to not know what it feels like to be high on heroin or hooked on nicotine.

With the Old Breed is a truly great book.

I am WAY surprised to see that you have not only read it, but liked it . . . I agree that it is a great book . . . one of the Japanese tanks destroyed in combat is still on that very spot, with the crew's remains still inside it, at least according to an American veteran who went back for a visit a couple of years ago . . .

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#333

Post by dimka »

Interesting thing is that as adults lie to kids other higher power people lie to the lower ones. For example politicians lie to citizens is a very similar manner. Or doctors (or relatives) lie to sick, probably dieing patients. So the concept is the same - to control and to "protect"

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#334

Post by tdietz »

Excellent essay!

Oddly enough, I'm learning more and more about the lies or mistruths I've grown into believe through the Internet. By reading blogs and content on other sites, I've realized that many things that I grew up thinking were the truth are actually urban legends, mistruths, or downright lies.

Part of that comes with a sense of sadness, but also part of it brings hope. Never have we had so much information available to us. Granted, much of it is crap (as the web is just a reflection of society) but it's pretty easy to find the 'right' answer if you look around.

What I found a little depressing is when you learn that someone you really respected (parent, teacher, clergy) was wrong or believed the same lie you did but didn't accept the truth. It's sort of like the phrase "event a lie becomes the truth" but more at the psychological level--as if it genuinely gets burned into ones brain.

I rarely will accept an article on its merits alone. For example, I typically will read user comments on news articles--it really puts things in perspective. So much as to sometimes change the entire view of a story.

Hopefully this will become commonplace and my kids will eventually grow up smarter than me--just not too soon :)

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#335

Post by gsharm »

Thank you for sharing. I'm similarly somewhat both disappointed and thrilled by the amount of bullshit that gets thrown around, and worse still, accepted through generations. I think it's largely a matter of habit, and the old can't change these habits easily - the young can, but then the old often do that work for them.

If you take a pyramidal view of intelligence, it means really the base is getting wider over time, which is worrying, so to some extent it's the job of people at near the top of the pyramid to push correct information downwards.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#336

Post by tt »

Here's something potentially controversial:

I believe the most common mistake parents make with raising their kids is attempting to treat them like adults all of the time.

This trend seems to be most common with educated parents. I would bet that when/if PG has his own kids, he would fall flat for it. I'm a parent and became aware of this concept prior to having the first child. Yet I still catch myself from time to time.

The "Lies We Tell Kids" article reminds me of virtually all educated parents attempting to explain things to their children at the moment when it's least effective. I often see (in public places) parents trying their best to explain to children why candies are bad for them, why curse words are bad, etc... all the while the kids are whining and throwing further tantrums. Such attempts are completely useless. What is most effective at those moments should be a stern warning, followed by immediate action if the kid does not comply to your command. Such actions are typically: immediate timeouts, loss of privileges, etc... I'm not talking about or even suggesting spanking the kid.

Regarding the "stern warning" method above, this is my favorite: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1889140163 I consider that one of the best things I have read since having kids.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#339

Post by commentbunny »

I like many of your essays, but this one is exceptional.

Recommend this book: It's not self-help. It's by a University Psychologist. We are a lot simpler than we like to think: "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by B Cialdini

Also Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion". Excellent book that calls religion for what it is. He notes its a survival advantage for kids to believe what adults tell them without question: Unfortunately "Don't swim in the crocodile infested river" is accompanied by the same stories that tell us to love the guy who killed 2,000,000 people in the Bible, but revile the one who only killed 9.

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