Coders Automating Their Own Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#331

Post by tummybug » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:33 AM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303

peteforde wrote: post #119

You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

I have also asked this, I can't understand why my managers always think its a joke idea.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#332

Post by emgee_1 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #184

kbenson wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there exists a large contingent of people who believe with all of their heart that God wanted them to find it, that the person who lost it should have been more careful, that they are just having a lucky day. A large part of how America sees work, poverty and wealth was historically influenced by the Protestant Work Ethic, and I think that lingers quite a bit today. I think it's why a lot of people view the poor as…

I think this doesn't quite get it. Will "hard work" lead to success? No, not exactly. I don't think anyone believes that. A prisoner in a work camp works hard. Hard work combined with personal agency leads to success. Are you responsible for yourself? That is, are you taking responsibility for yourself? If so, you will find a way to make yourself successful. If you are looking for someone else to take responsibility…

Success is the poison of this society

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#333

Post by caoilte » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

m00n wrote: post #327

caoilte wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be sad that it seems they didn't feel they could trust me, but if they did the job well and for a good price why wouldn't I hire them again? Also, they're not my employee. I contracted them for a one time job. Totally different working relationship.

You say you would feel "sad". To be honest, I would feel cheated. And to set up this smokescreen with pseudo-gardening people (or prerecorded data entry screencaptures to stay with the article) is outright fraught, IMHO.

Strange. It might be a cultural difference.

I value outputs.

To worry about how work is done if it is done well is micro-management.

Some people do want to pay money to have employees that look busy. I knew someone (in America it has to be said) who lived on a road where one person would constantly be getting gardening done just to show that they could afford it. It was constant re-work and pointless, which just showed off how much money they had. Maybe there is an element of that at work.

Security guards and secretaries are a similar phenomenon. They're not really needed, so god forbid they were to study for evening class while at work.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#334

Post by mrodozov » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:51 AM UTC

peteforde wrote: post #119

You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…

"is there inherent nobility in work itself?" there certainly is benefit called experience, who cares about nobility. in certain parts of the world nobility is last concern

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#335

Post by astannard » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:53 AM UTC

I automated my job at a company. I did not tell management for a week after but was then bored. It took another few months of me nagging them for more work before the believed me and gave me another project.

It was a business critical application I inherited that was highly unreliable, my job was to keep it running. I just reworked the code so that it ran reliably and was resistant to outages etc. I also added in a few scheduled tasks etc to keep it ticking over

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#336

Post by gehsty » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:54 AM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #268

nstart wrote: post #251

This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…

> This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. Their boss cares. This is capitalism, and capitalist ethics say you should be fired if…

I think it means that your job should then become automating aspects of the business, then maintaining these automations. Your labour becomes automating.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#337

Post by pferde » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

ddingus wrote: post #209

peteforde wrote: post #119

You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…

I once returned a wallet, cash, everything intact. Called the guy when I found it. He totally panicked. Was odd. When I handed it to him, that face! Worth it. Amazingly, he proceeded to try and give me the cash. Was an effort to decline. At the time, I really needed a warm fuzzy. The lost wallet was a great opportunity, and I got a good one. But, our conversation basically centered on, "who does that?" Indeed. The st…

I once found a lost cellphone, and after its owner called it, we arranged to meet and I returned the phone. The owner's reaction was very similar to what you describe. I refused any reward - it seems natural to me to just return it - but later that night (it was a Friday night and I was out for drinks with friends), we bumped into him in a winery, and he ended up buying me and my friends a huge jug of very good wine, out of gratitude. :)

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#338

Post by 0xfeeddeadbeef » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

I've read on HN (don't remember exactly) a story about a military service person, who automated his data entry job and told his commanding officer, who scolded him and told him to do what he was supposed to do and "not to be clever". Maybe someone recalls the article I'm talking about?

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#339

Post by lwhi » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

tspike wrote: post #187

lwhi wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When most people or organisations are purchasing a service, they're usually mainly concerned about the value that service will bring them. The amount of effort required to produce that value, helps to dictate market conditions and the amount of competition; aside from this, ultimately I don't think effort matters so much when you consider it in terms of B2B transactions. Eventually, if a service is easy to supply—com…

It's because there's a conflict of interest in who reaps the benefits. If the company makes the decision to automate, it's clear that it's the company that reaps the benefits. If a worker chooses to automate, it's ambiguous.

Exactly - as a permanent employee, are you being paid for time or value?

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#340

Post by iaml » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

m00n wrote: post #316

A question for the people that have a positive attitude towards keeping time savings for yourself instead of passing them on to your employer. Would you be also okay with the following situation: You have someone remodell your garden. He comes up with an estimate of 1 week worth of full-time work for two people. Based on your experience this seems reasonable and you agree on a fixed price of 10000$. Two scenarios of…

One important distinction that you omit is the robot gardener costs exactly the same as other people doing the work manually. If I had to choose between two options that cost the same, but one is ultra fast and has consistently high quality, it's a no-brainer for me.