Do people find jobs through advertisements? I don't think I've ever landed a job that way. It's always been through referral or researching companies that do interesting work and reaching out to the right people there.
Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
331–340 of 407 posts
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#332Shouldn't the ad market correct this itself? I'm thinking something like this:
1. If advertisers are targeting men the price for job ads targeting men goes up.
2. Assuming women are as good at men at the job any firm that hires women can now do so more cheaply than its competitors.
3. Firms will realize this and start hiring women by targeting them, which will push the prices towards equilibrium.
Maybe that reasoning doesn't work if the cost to target men vs women isn't that different or if companies are only spending a small amount on ads.
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a lot of countries we're talking about here (and I'm honestly surprised an adult who has hired someone wouldn't be aware) but from a 5 second DuckDuckGo: > The only thing the employer has to do is avoid criteria which touch on race, religion, gender, age or disability. > Allen M., Esq. Attorney
That quote talks about criteria, not where ads can be placed.
Placing ads limited by gender could still be viewed as limiting criteria. IANAL: go look up lawyers who have discussed ad targeting strategy as being in violation of labour laws many times before.
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking of smells, my initial reaction is that Disparate Impact smells broken. I can see pretty clearly how it would be possible to argue legally that advertising a job internally and not externally (to a company) is discriminatory. And following that further along, in this way, I can see a pretty straightforward method of declaring any job advertising as discriminatory under that decision. I think law like this is…
I think law like this is broken because it's like many (American) laws where it ends up selectively enforced Laws like these are not criminal laws, and are not meant to be enforced if by that you mean policed . It's up to someone to file a lawsuit, if they think the law is on their side. Then a judge will have to rule whether or not the law applies in that particular case, and in doing so they may set a precedent whi…
>Laws like these are not criminal laws, and are not meant to be enforced if by that you mean policed. It's up to someone to file a lawsuit, if they think the law is on their side.
That's worse, because then it shifts the burden of en^W^W policing onto those who actually want to go through the time and expense of a lawsuit, so only the most egregious abuses against the most powerful people will ever see judicial oversight, providing an extremely noisy signal that never provides reliable guidance, esp when (as parent notes) huge classes of activity are violating the ostensible "disparate impact" criteria but never prosecuted.
> But you would also be wrong in the sense that each verdict rendered helps to set precedent,
But those verdicts don't help when the set of cases going to trial is skewed as above. The only real signal it sends is "hey, don't do it in a way that might get noticed by someone who actually matters".
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
Provided that fb is a social network, lying to it must be lying to your environment?
I'm only friends with people on Facebook who know my gender, so it doesn't really matter. Plus it only actually shows in a few places such as "xxx replied to his/her comment" notifications.
I thought FB allowed you to set your gender and pronoun independently now?
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you were to only recruit from single gender schools then I personally would have an issue with it, same as this issue. However, if you are recruiting from many universities and some happen to be single gender, that is not discriminating.
Does "have an issue with it" mean "put people in jail for it"? Because thats what it sounds like you're getting at.
Where in the world did you get that from? I never said anything of the sort.
I literally take issue with it, as in I don't think it is right. I said nothing about the implications and I certainly don't think someone should be jailed for poor recruiting practices.
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact One thing you might be interested in reading about is Disparate Impact. Discrimination cases can be proven by showing that a practice has a disproportionately adverse impact on members of a protected class, even in the absence of intentional discrimination. The Supreme Court noted in Griggs v. Duke Power Co that the Civil Rights Act bans "not only overt discrimination bu…
Regarding age based discrimination, discriminating against the "young" is allowed as they are not a protected class. Allowing the refinement and targeting of ads towards older people would be okay. But restricting the ads to only younger people would not be. At least by law in the U.S.
Yup. The young are the one class in america where discrimination is not just allowed but expanding. Businesses like car and hotel rental have discriminated against them for ages. But now big retail chains are beginning to discriminate as well as social pushes are made to violate the 18-21 year old rights to purchase firearms and the like.
It's pretty crazy. They are legal adults. They vote. They serve on juries. These are the people that fight america's wars and actually risk their lives but at home large companies are discriminating against them in an rapidly expanding sphere of things.
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#338I don't understand the problem. The flipside would be they're letting Job Advertisers only target women. I wonder what those numbers look like: What percentage of job advertisers only target women? If I'm spending ad dollars, why would I not choose the most effective form of advertising for me? That's not to say they're not hiring women. In which case it'd be more dubious. Last week in the Bay Area I heard a TSA radi…
The problem is that these "immutable characteristics" are very hard to assess subjectively by humans.
Say you divide a group of candidates into evenly split groups based on something. Gender, age, race - your pick. You'd end up with an uneven split even if your entire pool has the same qualification level and you let someone hire from it "by merit". And I don't mean it'll be random, there will be a clear distribution given enough samples.
How else do you suggest we solve this issue besides affirmative action?
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#339I'm a bit mixed about this; it is clearly discriminatory to publish a job ad that says "women need not apply", but it doesn't feel inherently discriminatory to advertise a job in, say, "Men's Health" but not "Cosmopolitan" magazine. Or to advertise on a particular television channel or program (whose viewers may not match the population at large). That's just how advertising works. Is that crazy? Would this be differ…
> That's just how advertising works. Is that crazy?
Why should advertising be considered the default or the correct method ? People still need jobs to feed themselves and their loved ones. It's about their survival and oppression and discrimination is still a thing.
Would there be a debate if ethnic was used instead of gender ?
Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men
#340I'm a bit mixed about this; it is clearly discriminatory to publish a job ad that says "women need not apply", but it doesn't feel inherently discriminatory to advertise a job in, say, "Men's Health" but not "Cosmopolitan" magazine. Or to advertise on a particular television channel or program (whose viewers may not match the population at large). That's just how advertising works. Is that crazy? Would this be differ…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact One thing you might be interested in reading about is Disparate Impact. Discrimination cases can be proven by showing that a practice has a disproportionately adverse impact on members of a protected class, even in the absence of intentional discrimination. The Supreme Court noted in Griggs v. Duke Power Co that the Civil Rights Act bans "not only overt discrimination bu…
Such a long comment about dealing with gender. It’s probably easier to just let a machine do the work and not deal with these issues.