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A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

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Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile we adults are still occasionally trying to Ctrl-Z real life.

I understood that as suspend. It still works! Who wouldn't want infinite time for video games/hobbies while time was stopped.

What else would it be? EOF on CP/M? I assume that's not what was intended since it is possible in real life (and the OS will do it sooner or later).

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#332
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy Crap. MessageEase is the keyboard I didn't know I wanted. It's like Minuum but smarter. <3

I've used MessageEase for years now on Android and it was really worth the time investment. I only switch back to Gboard occasionally to get at its far superior emoji input system, but I don't use a lot of emoji in most of my text entry so that's not a massive deal. I can type accurately without having to wrestle with autocorrect all the time, and that'll do for me! And although the letter frequency distribution isn'…

I haven't gone too far myself, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to customize the symbol layout to better suit a particular language or user preference.

IIRC you can swap out (or add) any of the side/minor triggers, but I don't recall if it's possible to change the big nine major keys.

It is great though, I abhor word prediction when I'm trying to write (the smarter the predictions, the more viscerally disturbing I find it), and ME has been the only way I can keep up a comfortable pace.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#333
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely a big factor. When you look at a Japanese computer keyboard [1] you might see lots of Japanese characters on the keys. Almost nobody actually uses these to type. Instead, if you want a か(ka) character then you type k,a on the familiar qwerty keys. These phonetic characters then get converted into the more complex Chinese-origin characters as you go along, allowing you to disambiguate homophones. Th…

> Cast your mind back to when you first encountered a computer keyboard. Does an IBM cardpunch keyboard count? :-) Anyhow, I took a 2 week class in 8th grade to learn to touch type on a mechanical typewriter. It's paid off handsomely ever since.

I found that taking a few college programming courses was entirely sufficient to learning to type. (keep in mind, I had already written dozens of academic papers at this point, but it was the coding that really solidified my typing abilities...)

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#334

The first example provided in the article (indeed the first sentence) is “How do I double click?”, and I want to focus on this. As a kid in the 90s, I just took double clicking as a necessary evil. But after many many opportunities of trying (mostly successfully) to teach it to both the elderly and to kids, I've gradually grown to hate it. It's such a horrible gesture, difficult to perform, complicated to reason abou…

Thank Jobs for that. Two physically, visibly, distict buttons were ‘too complicated’, so instead the second action is invisible and undiscoverable.

(Jobs also stuck us with the invisible fragile clipboard in place of the Star copy/move pattern.)

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#335
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is the video representative of texting speed, or is this the fastest human in the world? From what I understand, he's on the faster end of the normal range. >Are they making choices that would take effort in a different system, or just clicking the next suggested letter? With Japanese kanji or Chinese hànzì, there's no practical way to directly input such a large range of characters. Users type a phonetic spelling,…

For Chinese hanzi, some people also use a stroke input method. You are presented with ~10 possible strokes that make up all hanzi, and by selecting them in the correct order you can write a character.

correct, that's 'WuBi' stroke input method. for a trained typist, stoke input is much faster than latin-letter based input method such as 'pinyin' since chinese character is structure-based.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#336
post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

Typing a word into Google gives you a sense of accomplishment? Wow.

When I was a kid (and by that I mean all the way into university), we had to go to the library (an actual physical place that wasn't our home), look in the card catalogue (an actual physical box of drawers with actual physical cards in them), then find the shelves with actual physical books on them. Then we had to look at the index in the book. Or just read it.

That took time and perseverance. There was no instant gratification. It took hours or days.

Are you advocating a return to that past and that much perseverance?

Typing a word into Google and clicking search is nothing. Trying to make it sound like it's so much better for character building is ridiculous.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#337
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By exposing them to something that doesn't react to the laws of physics, I fear they get a wrong first impression of the world, that at an early age they are not able to distinguish the difference between a book and a representation of one. I'm not friends with how you casually throw the word "wrong" in there, as if it was an unquestionable universal agreement. Transport yourself (by vessel of imagination) to a fut…

I work with a designer that has something like 20+ years of print experience. We make web sites. It's true that some habits are hard to break, like wanting pixel perfect shapes and alignments, which of course doesn't work too well with today's needs of responsive design, or mobile first interfaces. But, after a basic introduction to the fundamentals of modern web design, the guy has come up with some great ideas, ele…

It really doesn't matter whether a child learns to stack blocks at ten months or at three years. Childhood comes before the rat race. I was phenomenally uncoordinated at least through the age of ten, and it didn't have anything to do with electronic devices because we didn't have those. I'm now perfectly capable of numerous complex and precise physical tasks.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#338
post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

> And it may sound old fashioned, but making things too easy for kids makes them less independent and less willing to put in the effort required for learning. Yes, agreed. We're building a generation where even pulling your parking brake when you park is seen as "hard", not having a discoverable, hand-hold, guided experience is "inconvenient". Netflix even have a hard time making people update their cards when they e…

I'm guessing I'm a generation older than you and I agree, my generation built a lazy, useless generation.

My parents say the same thing about my generation.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it may sound old fashioned, but making things too easy for kids makes them less independent and less willing to put in the effort required for learning. Yes, agreed. We're building a generation where even pulling your parking brake when you park is seen as "hard", not having a discoverable, hand-hold, guided experience is "inconvenient". Netflix even have a hard time making people update their cards when they e…

I'm guessing I'm a generation older than you and I agree, my generation built a lazy, useless generation. My parents say the same thing about my generation.

While there is a lot of that, it's one thing to "not do X because it's never needed and is supplanted by new technology"

Young people don't know what a VHS or vinyl player is and that is fine

Another thing is to think everything is solvable with a phone app, that everything is on Google or that everything is learnable through a step by step YouTube video and requires no effort.

That causes frustrations as well.

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