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Anthony Bourdain has died

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Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for The Body Keeps the Score. One of the most useful books on overcoming trauma I've ever read. The idea of Developmental Trauma Disorder is so much more constructive than other models. So many of the things we call "diseases" can be traced to trauma. "Mental injury" may be a more useful construct than "mental illness". In the same way that your body can heal from a femur fracture, your psyche can heal from a trau…

Any modalities in particular you found beneficial from The Body Keeps the Score?

More than any specific modality, what I got from the book was confirmation that the way to heal developmental trauma is to create a safe space and then to engage with it. As opposed to seek to hide it or cover it up pharmaceutically as recommended by Big Pharma.

Practices I have found to be useful in dealing with childhood physical abuse and chronic emotional abuse:

- sauna/cold plunge (incredibly useful way to trigger fight or flight and learn to deal with conditioned fear response)

- pushups, pullups, yoga

- breath awareness and compassion meditations

- metric shit-tons of journaling

- reading stories of trauma survivors

- psychoanalysis, up to a point

- talking to friends (the right ones)

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any modalities in particular you found beneficial from The Body Keeps the Score?

More than any specific modality, what I got from the book was confirmation that the way to heal developmental trauma is to create a safe space and then to engage with it. As opposed to seek to hide it or cover it up pharmaceutically as recommended by Big Pharma. Practices I have found to be useful in dealing with childhood physical abuse and chronic emotional abuse: - sauna/cold plunge (incredibly useful way to trigg…

Thanks! I’ve been doing yoga, EMDR, and Somatic Experience and have found all helpful in different ways.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#334
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone done this and had success? As someone who has dealt with suicidal thoughts for years and continues to struggle with it, it wouldn’t do me any good. I’d lie and act like it’s a ridiculous question, and then I’d probably be binge drinking for the next week from the stress and paranoia from being “found out”.

I had success in that I'm still alive. I have called a suicide hotline. They determined that I was a danger to myself. The police came to my house and took me to a crisis center where I was held against my will for seventy-two hours where other unsupervised, unmedicated residents of a facility for observation before being released. If I am ever suicidal again I'll just skip the suicide hotline. They were no help, and…

Yeah, that’s pretty much been my experience with our “mental health care” system as well. Well, that and pills that don’t work (for me). Maybe it’s just the world that’s sick.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#335
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that the fact of receiving a diagnosis is more strongly correlated with the likelihood of getting help than you accounted for? Also, what is "diagnosable" – that sounds suspiciously different than "diagnosed." That doesn't even sound like a statistic that tracks against individuals, so I don't know how you could make an inference like that. Even if we saw the statistical effect you predicted (eg. diagn…

> Also, what is "diagnosable" – that sounds suspiciously different than "diagnosed." Well it's an apple-to-apples comparison with the CDC stat about people with undiagnosed mental illness. Basically instead of waiting for people to go in and see a psychiatrist, you just screen every single person in a certain sample for every possible mental illness. This is how mental health assessments at a population level are nor…

Fair enough. Thanks for the education in terms.

I'm extrapolating a lot from a small comment, so forgive me if I've misinterpreted your comment, but I have an issue with your reasoning; I don't know what it tells us that 50% of people suffer from mental illness at any given point in their life, or how that can be suggestive of any evidence against a relationship between mental illness and suicide.

The numbers may seem telling on the face, but the rate of mental illness in cases of suicide is not based on "diagnosable," it is based on actually diagnosed cases (and jumping ahead, the NIH report linked in the parent comment certainly came to a very different conclusion than you seem to have inferred.)

There's a reason I would think that they sample populations in this way, as in terms of "diagnosable;" most centrally in order to get a more accurate count of the actual incidence, and because the rate of incidence is actually known to be higher than the rate of actual diagnosis.

This kind of sampling helps us to better know the actual rate of mental illness, and taken with the known rate of diagnosed mental illness it may allow us to learn the rate of undiagnosed cases.

What I'm saying is, we can't know anything more than that from these simple averages taken together. The NIH report tracked individuals with known case history, and that's exactly how you can know more.

It is also known that many people who are suffering as such will not seek help. Those are exactly the individuals that "The CDC's data [which] relies on reports from coroners, medical examiners and law enforcement agencies" simply can't take into account. The rate of undiagnosed mental illness is nonzero and significant (a quick search shows recent reports suggesting that it is also near 50%). If there was a perfect 1:1 correlation (say, every suicide co-incident to a case of mental disorder, diagnosed or not), you would absolutely expect that CDC post-mortem number to be lower; less than NIH number by the rate of undiagnosed mental illness.

You can compare these statistics in aggregate, and "rates of undiagnosed mental illness" are also knowable in aggregate through population sampling methods like these, but those people with undiagnosed mental illnesses, who then committed suicide, cannot be directly counted. Cases of "co-morbid mental disorder" among those individuals, as the NIH report calls it, are not so readily quantified. (I think the CDC report does not even attempt to quantify them. This is the idea of a psychiatric autopsy.)

So I think that you can't say more without knowing more about those individuals suffering from undiagnosed mental illnesses (yeah, that's the thing you unfortunately can't know.)

As those undiagnosed illnesses are ostensibly people who did not seek help, those are exactly the ones who the CDC stat won't be able to measure.

You can know something about the relative uncertainty of those measurements though – if you could say that 50% of individuals with severe psychiatric disorders are untreated, then you can have an expected value for the difference between these numbers. This also may seem suggestive, but it is also not sufficient evidence to directly draw any conclusions from.

Actually diagnosed mental illnesses can, however, be correlated with incidences of suicide, which the NIH study linked in the parent commenter's reference does. That report indicated that there was shown a strong correlation.

Disregarding all of the reports and statistics though, as a layman, if forms of treatment used are remotely successful, I would hope that suicide rates among patients with a diagnosis should be lower than the rate of suicide in undiagnosed cases. And if so, that is also going to be a driver for the type of error I'm trying to express that I thought you were not fully considering.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...only makes it worse..." I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one. I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do. I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies. Sure…

DEF CON 21 - Amber Baldet - Suicide Risk Assessment and Intervention Tactics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM Slides https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/... Extras https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=b...

Thank you. That first video is a lot to take in. I'll need to rewatch it. But know that I'm grateful to you for this starting point.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#337
post #327
post #49

I struggled with mental health issues my entire adult life. Psychosis, Schizophrenia, Biploar, Anxiety, Suicidal Depression, Panic Attacks. It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief. 1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anx…

My experience mirrors yours in many ways, including the tools, modalities, and techniques you mention. I appreciate what you've shared here and how you've articulated this.

I'd love to hear more about your journey. Sharing notes on the path helps us all refine the map.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#338
post #330

I'm at a week-long point of one of the harder depression episodes I've ever had. It came from running out and thus taking a break from my adhd meds. A week ago, I was worried about my health, because I loved life and wanted to live it to the fullest. The last 3-4 days has been 14 hour sleep sessions, lack of will to get up and out, and a profound sadness about my place in life. I had to keep talking myself out of say…

Please try to keep seeing professional help. My personal path with depression has been talking to a shrink who was also a psychologist. Se then indicated me to a cognitive behavioral therapist who has helped me immensely.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#339
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Aside from the tragedy that is this news) Kitchens are wonderful microcosms of results oriented management. You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, a…

Out of curiosity what is a semi-documented immigrant?

Overstayed on a work visa or another "official at one time" scenario.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#340
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity what is a semi-documented immigrant?

Overstayed on a work visa or another "official at one time" scenario.

I am not sure what the practice difference is in this case. Is the way they are treated by the INS any different if caught?
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