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GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

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Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating self-interest with greed. That is a great mistake in trying to understand Adam Smith. They are not the same thing. Values, ethics, morals... are part of self-inrerst for lots of people.

then it’s practically a tautology

Most of western philosophy is just a bunch of tautologies. That is what makes it interesting.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like gitlab is the "right" choice.

Maybe, or maybe there is an emerging space for a service that would count stars, forks, etc on all versions of a repository and aggregate the values. But I would hate another centralized service.

Isn't GitLab a centralized service?

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spolsky certainly had a strong influence with his ideas and feedback, but I don't think he was ever very directly involved in the project - the main driver was Jeff Atwood. At least that's what I got from listening to the podcast, back in '08.

Is "co-founder" and "strong influence with ideas" not direct involvement? Spolsky has a long and impressive resume. What was he doing during the SO era if not working on SO?

The idea I got was that he had opinions on how it should work, but that he wasn't involved in the actual development. He's actually written recently on it:

"Jeff started working on the code in April 2008, recruited two other programmers to join him (Geoff and Jarrod, who are still here), and the three of them heroically launched what became Stack Overflow in September 2008."

I'm guessing he was running Fog Creek Software, as its CEO.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is pretty much doing the same thing with Chrome. Opera has switched to its rendering engine and Firefox's share is dropping (after Google pumped tons of money in them and used their work to enhance their own offering). Gecko is barely on the map while Google's render can be found in newer versions of Opera, Vivaldi, and others. I mean if you go back far enough, Microsoft did this with IE. IIRC, they licensed a…

Chrome is absolutely the new IE... it’s just in the heyday stage instead of the “ancient barely supported monster” stage that IE was in when developers began to hate it. The need for greater variety in the spread of popular rendering engines is dire and real. Browser monoculture is dangerous and I refuse to use any browser that’s Chromium/Blink as my daily driver for this reason. I seek alternatives for sites that ob…

Chrome will never be IE6. Both Firefox and Chrome do constant rolling releases. There's no more "This works with Firefox 4" because in a few years we'll see versions over 100 and they'll be irrelevant. They move up, just like the web, together.

Even MS Edge is on a rolling release with IE11 just sitting back there in its corporate shit role. Safari is really the last big browser not to move to rolling releases.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#335
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what in theory you think happens. What actually happens is that in very few app categories that is the case. For example, not a single game is losing market share to a competitor because they do not have a watch app.

You picked the worst example here: you really can't play (serious) games on your watch, so the comparison is invalid. But for a fitness app, or a messaging one, or a music service, I would significantly favor the service that has a watch counterpart, if not shun the other one outright.

I picked the biggest category of apps just to show you having a watch app is irrelevant when picking an iPhone app for everything in the app store but a very narrow set of categories, and you just demonstrated that. Yes, fitness is great, messaging somewhat ok, but what about the other millions of apps in the app store? what about a writing app? or a video editor? or a measuring app? or Dropbox?

Right now there is no reason for Youtube to make a watch app, and no reason for you to pick Vimeo over Youtube because it has a watch app.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>DotNet Core debugger is proprietary . You can only debug apps within Microsoft environment according to their license. People keep bringing this up as if it's some evil plan, not a legacy problem. The debugger is based on Visual Studio's closed source debugger. Visual Studio is a major paid product. It's not simple to just extract an integral feature from a paid product.

> It's not simple to just extract an integral feature from a paid product. Why? This isn't a technical challenge. As far as I know, the actual debugging engines are pretty isolated modules with some alternative interfaces already available (e.g. cdb). So where do you see the real challenge?

No, it's not a technical challenge. It's a business issue. You know, the whole Visual Studio makes us a lot of money can we really afford to just open license its main feature?

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust self interest. Especially not in my butcher, brewer, or baker. Pure self interest gets you McDonalds, Bud Light, and Debi cakes. I consume exactly none of those things and have no desire to consume any of those things. They taste terrible, are bad for me, and the companies themselves are generally bad for their communities and the world. A good butcher, brewer, or baker is driven by craft first - care f…

You are conflating self-interest with greed. That is a great mistake in trying to understand Adam Smith. They are not the same thing. Values, ethics, morals... are part of self-inrerst for lots of people.

Evidently not to the extent that we can rely on self-interest as a viable regulatory mechanism.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#338
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a $5/mo VPS and self host your repositories? It’s really not that hard.

And spending how many hours a month maintaining it and applying updates and security patches and setting up monitoring and dealing with downtime? The promise of these hosted services isn't the free storage/servers, its the maintenance of them. We're running our own private GitLab server but we thought long and hard before doing it.

To be fair, maintaining an (internal) gitlab server really only costs you the upgrade time. You make a snapshot, upgrade (and optionally rollback if something breaks). It takes exceptionally little time - unlike say, running your own email server.

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait, how does go and chrome trump open source c#, f#, vb.net, .net core, typescript, asp.net, visual studio code, monaco, powershell core, mono, and the many, many other things they have open sourced? they’ve gone insane. https://opensource.microsoft.com https://github.com/Microsoft and all of these are active and well managed with microsoft employees engaged in communication.

Angular, Polymer, Dart, Go, Android, Chromium, Protocol Buffers, Java Guice/Collections, C++ Abseil Plus a bunch of minor things https://opensource.google.com/projects/list/featured and stuff Google contributes to but doesn't lead.

Kubernetes, CGroups (for containers) VP9, VP10 codecs

Re: GitHub Is Microsoft’s $7.5B Undo Button

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is pretty much doing the same thing with Chrome. Opera has switched to its rendering engine and Firefox's share is dropping (after Google pumped tons of money in them and used their work to enhance their own offering). Gecko is barely on the map while Google's render can be found in newer versions of Opera, Vivaldi, and others. I mean if you go back far enough, Microsoft did this with IE. IIRC, they licensed a…

Chrome is absolutely the new IE... it’s just in the heyday stage instead of the “ancient barely supported monster” stage that IE was in when developers began to hate it. The need for greater variety in the spread of popular rendering engines is dire and real. Browser monoculture is dangerous and I refuse to use any browser that’s Chromium/Blink as my daily driver for this reason. I seek alternatives for sites that ob…

So long as Chrome/ium remain open source, it is absolutely impossible for it to become the new IE. Chrome itself has no magic that makes it a better browser than base Chromium if you aren't invested in Google's ecosystem.
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