Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

blog.bradfieldcs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 342 posts

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#331

Post by robocat »

eropple wrote: post #320
robocat wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you tell your clients before taking on work about your requirements, or is it first strike you're out?

I alternately contract and consult, and I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a client that, if they endorse yelling as interaction, I'm not sticking around. That's normal-people stuff--they should already know Because healthy environments don't do that.

To be clear: I wasn't endorsing yelling. I was just wondering how consultants pre-empt negative results.

Surely some clients do yell, and presumably if they think it is acceptable to yell, they would be surprised at an abrupt end to a contract!

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#332

Post by sorokod »

mythrwy wrote: post #290
scarface74 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power. There are one or two that I feel are unethical (Law #7 in particular).

They should rename this "48 Laws Of Getting By In Mediocre to Poor Organizations". Poor managers are threatened by underlings smarter than themselves. Good managers seek people smarter than themselves then try to get the best out of them. Poor organizations are those where everyone tip toes around afraid to mention reality lest it offend someone. These are organizations on the path of decline. Growing organizations a…

Statistically, the majority of organisations are mediocre.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#333

Post by bvc35 »

rrggrr wrote: post #22

I was a young employee during a recession, and finding work was difficult. When I landed my first job I was I was grateful and focused on ways I might make my work contribute to the company's bottom line, by pushing the limits of my job description and tasks to ensure my role impacted revenue and value creation. I appreciated training and feedback, but forced myself to deliver results autonomously through self-teachi…

It sounds like you want an employee to take on the responsibilities of a company owner without actually making them an owner, giving them stock, or giving them proper incentives. The problem is not with the labor market, it's with your sense of entitlement to your employee's skills. Employees no longer act the way they used to because modern companies more regularly dispose of employees when it suits them.

If you want employees to act the way you want, either give them stock, pay them significantly more, or give them long term, multi-year employment contracts. If you expect to get something (employees going above and beyond) for nothing, you are entitled.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#334

Post by Mandatum »

robocat wrote: post #331
eropple wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I alternately contract and consult, and I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a client that, if they endorse yelling as interaction, I'm not sticking around. That's normal-people stuff--they should already know Because healthy environments don't do that.

To be clear: I wasn't endorsing yelling. I was just wondering how consultants pre-empt negative results. Surely some clients do yell, and presumably if they think it is acceptable to yell, they would be surprised at an abrupt end to a contract!

No I don't tell clients that up front - although I don't think it's necessary to. It's like saying if someone assaults me, or my shortcomings are going to be publicly broadcasted throughout the company, I'd tell them that's not something I'm okay with. Nobody should expect either of those things to happen.

On being yelled at, it's only happened once - and I'm pretty sure the person doing the yelling was having a bit of a breakdown. Getting yelled at is a very strange thing in a work environment.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#335

Post by toomanybeersies »

saltybytes wrote: post #326
toomanybeersies wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had something similar happen at my old company, an 8 person startup. I was more or less asked to quit (coincidently I was planning to hand my notice in that day anyway) by the CEO. Never once had the CEO actually pulled me aside or talked to me about his perceived problems with me. He was perfectly happy with the quantity and quality of work I put out, but apparently there were cultural and attitude issues or somet…

Same here but different reason. I worked in Software Engineering for a financial organization when I announced the arrival of my first child to head of HR (Monday). My performance review was scheduled for Tuesday but my manager postponed to Friday. I was fired (because of my baby) that Friday by head of HR instead of sitting down in 1-1 with my manager or CTO. They just didn't have the guts to tell me that my product…

I take it that in the USA, pregnancy discrimination isn't illegal, or at least isn't for the father?

Terrible move from the company either way. Firing people is expensive, first you lose a whole lot of institutional knowledge, then hiring a person is expensive (especially if you use a recruiter), then you have to train a new person up, which takes about 3 months to get them up to speed.

The sensible option is to discuss options, such as working reduced hours (e.g. only afternoons) for a time. Of course, in many developed countries (the USA excluded), paid parental leave is legally guaranteed or even mandatory.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#336

Post by dredmorbius »

r00fus wrote: post #292
dredmorbius wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ... complicated. More than I can get into here, or eveen than I've really worrked out. Short version is that in the absence of advanced comms, you have no option but to extend trust . I'm thinking here where inteervals might have been months, eveen years. (Historically, sea passage was not possible from November through May.) Instead you had trust-establishing institutions, a role usually filled by religion, in…

They also come with significant opportunities for fake signaling. Gaining trust means you signal properly to the people you are attempting to influence. With records you now move mechanisms with which your signal that trust.

Fake signalling is what's always been present in communications. Deception, bluff, camoflage, and distraaction are all highlydeeveloped even aamongst animals. It is scale and rate especially which are changed now, and the ability to entirely bypass trust or trust-development.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#337

Post by kevsim »

iamcasen wrote: post #171
bitL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most performance reviews are basically convoluted ways to say: "Do I like you?". Actual performance has miniscule effect on the rating, maybe only in a decision if one should be let go or not, but even excellent results won't save one if they aren't liked. I have seen many top performers single-handedly building branches of business being let go when they finished and somebody wanted to claim credit or push their fri…

God this is so true it hurts. It's what I've always hated about performance reviews. It feels like an attack on my personally because it's never about my work, it's about my clothes or my face. One memorable experience was when my boss came out of no where and said "You don't seem happy here. You don't smile enough. You're now on probation until you get your act together." Not one sentence about my work as a software…

Sounds like highly toxic environment. Hope you got out!

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#338

Post by edraferi »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #335
saltybytes wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here but different reason. I worked in Software Engineering for a financial organization when I announced the arrival of my first child to head of HR (Monday). My performance review was scheduled for Tuesday but my manager postponed to Friday. I was fired (because of my baby) that Friday by head of HR instead of sitting down in 1-1 with my manager or CTO. They just didn't have the guts to tell me that my product…

I take it that in the USA, pregnancy discrimination isn't illegal, or at least isn't for the father? Terrible move from the company either way. Firing people is expensive, first you lose a whole lot of institutional knowledge, then hiring a person is expensive (especially if you use a recruiter), then you have to train a new person up, which takes about 3 months to get them up to speed. The sensible option is to disc…

Apparently pregnancy is a protected status, but parenthood isn't: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/federal-antidiscrimi...

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#339

Post by hrktb »

gowld wrote: post #181
hrktb wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more common case is 5 managers coming to you to pitch their managees for promotion. You can’t just promote everyone the same, and hopefully the managers are pretty happy with their managees. That’s where paper trail, or anything mildly objective is precious to adjust what needs to be done.

> You can’t just promote everyone the same Why?

The simplest way to look at it: everyone is not the same

In particular everyone doesn't have the same experience, market value, expectations and behavior associated. For instance you will have a manager that is super happy with what an employee does, but in practice the employee is already at the top of the game, paid accordingly, and has a special status in the company.

This employee's raise will be proportionally a lot lower than a junior guy who went above and beyond his role and could leap two ranks ahead with the skills demonstrated.

Both employees are valuable and merit praise, it just won't translate to the same proportional amount.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#340

Post by iamcasen »

dfxm12 wrote: post #208
iamcasen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so inhuman though, it seems obvious why it is a shitty process. How do you acquire data points about a person? Sure it's easy if their job is to produce MAX WIDGETS/HR, but what if they are a designer, or a software engineer? The only way to judge someone is to work with them closely for months/years. Translating that into data points to hand off to a series of managers will never ever work. Especially if it…

They rely on the word on their direct reports, who presumably have had training in how to judge their direct reports. Of course, the people filling out these reviews are also judged on their performance as well. The only way to judge someone is to work with them closely for months/years. I disagree here. At some point, you're going to have to delegate and give up in micromanaging this process. There's no way Satya Na…

Sure, once you're at the VP level your reputation probably precedes you. If you're young in your career though, with little work history, your manager won't be able to gauge shit unless they see the work you produce. Even then, you won't produce good work unless your placed somewhere that matches your strengths. Your manager can't know your strengths/weaknesses without actually spending time with you.

So at that level, it's exactly like I say it it is: a boss just decides if they like their report or not. They go with their biased gut feeling that's probably based more on superficial characteristics like clothes, hair, or the way a person talks. From there the person will either be thrown the sharks, or given a lot of support and opportunities.

I'm sure not all organizations are like that, but most that have 5000 employees or more have been exactly like that from my experience.

Post reply on HN