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America has a truck driver shortage

washingtonpost.com

331–340 of 404 posts

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time someone used an 18 wheeler to make a long haul delivery to my door step was 18 years ago. It's been small utility trucks ever since, driven on short hauls, by people who might well live walking distance to my house. A train would never deliver to my house, but to this day there are still unused train slips leading to factories around my urban area, and in Europe there are plenty of shopping malls that h…

LTL trucking is how just about everything you buy in a store is delivered, and it you ever buy anything online that is large or heavy it is also shipped this way to your house. The UPS truck isn't delivering pallets of bananas to the grocery store.

Nope. But note you said pallet. Nothing stopping those pallets from making the long haul on tracks, and the last mile on a truck.

(Except politics, that is)

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#332
post #307

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Of course it is, that's the whole point? Those guys get the deals, OPs point. So if you measure success by their individual success it's a tautology. However, hoe is it for the rest of society? I would claim it is not so clear. There is quite a bit of "success is when you are successful" in a lot of arguments I see around such topics, where the assumptions directly lead to the outcome followed by a "Q.E.D.". For exam…

I see your point, and it’s an interesting issue. Do marketing and managerial skill add real value to a product/service, or are they at best a necessary evil? I think there is a strong case to be made that they add value. One issue they solve is simply the communication of the existence and value of said product in an increasingly crowded and noisy world. To take everyone’s favorite example, look how Apple has consist…

The price of most things is a function of labor cost + materials + location where it's made + admin + delivery.

In a perfect world, admin and delivery are nearly 0, the warehouse where it's made is once again as cheap as possible, and the materials and labor will decrease over time as more and more laborers acquire the skills necessary to make the product. This is why drone pilot income is rapidly plumetting, along with database administrators and so on.

Knowing this reality, major corporations and the government have colluded together to "regulate" and "standardize" many industries, as well as creating many burdensome and time consuming processes for all businesses (accounting, HR, compliance).

This admin cruft is the very secret sauce that keeps monopolies and oligopolies alive, while killing innovation and price competition. Essentially, this is the American health care system.

Sales is just part of that cruft. There's a reason I don't need a sales guy to buy a solar panel-- I just need customer support at the most.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#333
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly - if they truly have a trucking shortage, the prices of all the intermediaries will have to rise, including the end shelf-price. More short-term, Wallmart will either just discontinue that product or offer it elsewhere due to free movement of capital. We'll get just a couple brands of cereal at the supermarket, instead of 25.

Yes. That is point I have been making.

But you seem to think the price going up is a bad thing, when in fact it is simply supply and demand, and necessary for markets to function.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do American trucks not have tachos? In EU it's impossible for a truck driver to speed or work more than 8 hours a day - if the truck moves even a little bit in the period when the driver is supposed to be resting, that means stupid fines for the transport company, and that's because everything is recorded by the tachometer behind the dash.

Independent trucks don't. Company trucks do. However, the company does not get fined, the driver does, personally.

This is false (the bit about owner/operator trucks not being required by law to have a big-brother data logger installed). Prior to the E-log mandate about a year ago owner operator and smaller trucking companies could have run paper logs.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independent trucks don't. Company trucks do. However, the company does not get fined, the driver does, personally.

>However, the company does not get fined, the driver does, personally. America vs Europe in a nutshell.

Yeah I see this a lot. Like in the US they seem to go after individual doctors for mistakes. In Norway it is more the hospital which gets punished.

Also economical compensation for medical error is something you apply to the government to get. If you think they pay too little or don't pay then you go to court.

I've noticed that in the US almost everything seems to go to court straight away. In Norway and probably rest of Europe there are much more non-court systems to deal with problems.

E.g. if a company has behaved badly you contact the consumer ombudsman and they will make a ruling or advocate on your behalf. They kind of collect complaints from many consumers and will get more involved if more consumers complain.

Companies will usually follow a ruling by the consumer ombudsman. If they don't do anything then that is when you get into court.

It might be one of the reasons why there are significantly fewer lawyers in Europe than the US.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, shortage of people willing to forego having a personal life, are expected to speed/break the law daily and risk losing their job as a part of doing their job, are verifiably destroying their health long term in order to do said boring menial job for long hours in exchange for low to medium pay. Of course there’s a shortage. If pay was 200-300% higher and drivers could afford to work 2/3 of the time an…

Are you willing to pay dramatically higher prices for literally everything you buy? Solutions like “just raise wages” are simplistic. Markets don’t work that way. You raise wages, trucking gets more expensive and demand drops, causing all sorts of unintended consequences. What very few people talk about is eliminating taxes on diesel fuel. That would lower costs and increase margins which would result in companies be…

How is "just raise wages" more simplistic than "just lower taxes?" Somebody has to foot the bill no matter what you do. Do you think tax cuts are free? They are no less free than wage increases. When you cut taxes somebody else has to get their taxes increased to make up for the short fall, or some other service needs to be cut.

"Markets don’t work that way. You raise wages, trucking gets more expensive and demand drops, causing all sorts of unintended consequences." YES! That is EXACTLY how markets work! These "unintended" consequences you speak of are the whole beauty of the free market. When you get a shortage of one good, the price of the good increase. This sends a price signal out in the rest of the economy which means more resources gets allocated to produce more of that good. That is the so called "unintended" consequences you speak of.

"Trucking is so competitive that most companies would go out of business if they raised wages 200-300%." No, because they could raise prices. If all the competition got 200-300% higher wages, they would also be forced to raise prices, which means you are competing on a higher price.

Take McDonalds in my native Norway. They pay their workers about $25 per hour. How can they pay that without raising prices a lot? Yes they do have much higher prices than the US. But how can they then compete? They can because everybody else has higher prices. This isn't rocket science.

"The world is governed by reality, not wishes and hopes and mandates dictated by people that have little understanding of the economics of logistics — or the economics of anything for that matter."

Exactly, in a functioning market economy, prices of a good for which there is a shortage such as truck drivers, the price would go up. When prices don't go up, it suggests it is not a functioning free market. There could be many reasons for that. One would be e.g. collusion between companies or weak competition.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#337
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like in the software field, there might be a multitude of reasons women might not go into that industry including sexism and not being encouraged by family/society. Some of the industries that women work in can be just as bad in their own ways.

Okay, but truck driving is a job. You don't do it for fun or as a hobby. Not like dev, graphic design or anything else on the computer. Here's a better example. No BS recruiter. Some salty old recruiter, on their last day before they retire. So they're just going to say it like it is. Here's the conversation to anyone: "Alright, you have a high school diploma, no college, in decent shape as you like to work out, a mi…

"Okay, but truck driving is a job. You don't do it for fun or as a hobby. "

I knew a software developer who purposefully became a truck driver because he enjoyed it. That was long time ago when conditions might have been better though.

Re: America has a truck driver shortage

#339

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>If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Most cases I would guess this is true until you hit the point that the pay is enough to live comfortably. Then it changes. My partner was recently approached for a position offering compensation more than 200% of their current for the same work. However,the hiring process is exposing red flags hinting at…

There's always a price. I wouldn't work that job for $100k/yr; I would work it for 1000 times the amount. Somewhere in the middle is, technically, the right price. This all gets silly when looked at in isolation, though. :-) I'd agree that there's not always an amount of compensation that the company could pay that would also attract enough workers.

When asked, "what will make you stop looking at other jobs and join us today," my response is always, "a $500k salary." We laugh, but I'm not kidding.
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