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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#331

Post by rock_hard »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #325
rock_hard wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree what FB would work fine if you gave it no data or fake data! The whole point of FB is for people to exchange data about themselves with their friends and family! If people don’t share any data or just fake data FB doesn’t work. For them to offer their service they also have to make money, so they run ads to do that. And to make the ads useful to people they need data for targeting! And now they allow users…

Facebook would work perfectly fine with fake data and without privacy violations. I can sign up with a fake date of birth and a throwaway email account, under a generic name (remove any identifying unique spelling or middle names, for instance) or a completely fake name. And I could still connect with friends and family, provided I know the names they've chosen to use on FB. According to the GDPR, anything you share…

I don't know if you are trolling or serious...I guess I and about 2B others might be using facebook differently than you then?

I also don't find any of the data that FB or Google have of me "disturbingly extensive" or that they have been "breaking laws" to get it.

I give them data so they can provide value to my life...it's as simple as that! If that deal doesn't work for you then you simply shouldn't use their products..nothing wrong with that.

I also personally prefer targeted ads over un-targeted ones btw. And I like using these services without having to pay for it...its a good deal!

I also want to add that, while you repeat popular believes, I have yet to see evidence for many/all of them and I would prefer you would either stay with the known facts or be more explicit about whats a personal opinion/internet myth. thanks

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#332

Post by emiliobumachar »

noja wrote: post #101
ClassAndBurn wrote: post #42

GDPR doesn't cover enough of the population using Facebook to warrant such a change to their business model where you can use the service without them using your data. They believe they are entrenched enough to just require this (and likely are for many EU residents).

Are you talking with real knowledge of the facts, or is this a guess? Because my guess would be that it would be cheaper to adhere to the rules rather than let a competitor grow big in Europe and eat their market elsewhere.

They also have to consider the risk that complying too much will inspire copycat regulations

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#333

Post by zerostar07 »

cabaalis wrote: post #165
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their choices are to either be GDPR-complient, or to completely bar all EU users from accessing Facebook. They cannot use tracking opt-in as a requirement for access.

American here; I just don't quite understand the premise. "Here is what you are giving us, and here is what you're getting in return" seems perfectly legit to me. If this interpretation of the law is correct, then the government is essentially saying the "in return" portion has to be eliminated. Which seems to be against the idea of trade.

Add to that: the EU is specifically excluding police and security services from GDPR. It's basically making the states the exclusive owners of private data.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#334

Post by jimmies »

BeetleB wrote: post #329
newscracker wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people can have different views on these things for various reasons. But I don't see how "FB's behaviors are not necessarily objectively bad", unless one considers only the profit motive as prime without giving any thought to other factors. Can you expand on that?

>But I don't see how "FB's behaviors are not necessarily objectively bad", unless one considers only the profit motive as prime without giving any thought to other factors. Can you expand on that? Anti-Disclaimer: I do not work for Facebook nor have I ever have in the past. I think the challenge on expanding on that is that you have not made a case for why it is objectively bad. Your posture is one of an assumption t…

I recently converted to your camp of thinking. Facebook is the manifestation of the ignorance, not the source of it. Recently I had conversations with female friends who said this directly to me: "I don't care if Facebook logs my sensitive messages and my nudes are leaked as a result of that."

Privacy to the average person is like hell to the non-Christian.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#335

Post by dbbk »

tlrobinson wrote: post #73
mrweasel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them. There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

Those are safety/environmental issues. Showing you ads based on your preferences is not.

If you believe Apple and Microsoft's CEOs, privacy is a human right, so I suppose that would put it up there.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#336

Post by BeetleB »

halfdan wrote: post #56
gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

Given their de facto monopoly I'm not sure "There is no legal right to Facebook" is correct anymore. It's sort of like the internet where if you were denied access you'd have a significant disadvantage in society - it could easily be argued that denying access to Facebook gives you a similar disadvantage. At the end of the day this will need to be decided in courts.

>it could easily be argued that denying access to Facebook gives you a similar disadvantage.

It is a lot easier to find people like me who never had FB accounts and who can testify that not having one has not impacted my life.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#338

Post by icebraining »

Kiro wrote: post #330
icebraining wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance of the contract does not mean whatever they want it to mean. Here's the ICO FAQ on the GDPR (emphasis mine): "The processing must be necessary to deliver your side of the contract with this particular person. If the processing is only necessary to maintain your business model more generally, this lawful basis will not apply and you should consider another lawful basis, such as legitimate interests." https…

What does "freely given" mean in this context? Is GDPR forcing me to give access to my service for free if my business model is targeted ads?

Yes, I that's the way I read it (from Recital 43), and the ICO seems to agree:

"Avoid making consent to processing a precondition of a service (...) If you make consent a precondition of a service, it is unlikely to be the most appropriate lawful basis."

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#339

Post by donatj »

icebraining wrote: post #225
donatj wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denial of service is a perfectly valid route to GDPR compliance.

Only if the personal data is necessary to provide the service. And "my business model makes it necessary" doesn't cut it. Otherwise you need consent, but you can't DoS if it's denied. EDIT: removed wrong link.

I can't deny you service if you don't agree to my terms of service? That seems to fundamentally break contract law.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#340

Post by KozmoNau7 »

rock_hard wrote: post #322
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think ranking is important? A simple chronological news feed should be perfectly fine. Sure, rank search results based on how many users a given group has, and put the most popular ones at the top. That doesn't require violating anyone's privacy.

Trust me, if ranking had no value...no product team would bother implementing it. The reason ranking is used left and right these days is because it makes products dramatically better.

And they are certainly allowed to do ranking. But they can only do it on non-PII data, on data that has been deliberately made public, and on data which people have consented to its collection and storage with unequivocal opt-in.
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