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YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

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Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Societies evolve and social views change. That's why we have principles and constitutional rights. So that our rights aren't taken away on a whim of societal change. I'm from NY and I've never owned a gun and I probably will never do so. But even I would be against repealing the 2nd amendment. The fact that people here are so openly talking about repealing the 2nd amendment and taking away more of our rights is rea…

The 2nd Amendment does speak of a well regulated militia and it being necessary for the defense of the United States. I'm in favor a well regulated militia. I'm not a lawyer and have no expertise on the legalities but I do know that amendments can be repealed. There is nothing unconstitutional about repealing an amendment. The Constitution details the mechanism for amending it.

> I'm in favor a well regulated militia.

So people can have guns as long as they're in a "well-regulated militia"? Do we want all gun owners to be in self-governed militias? I don't follow this line of thought.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, what do we propose to do? 1. Ideally, we don't allow corporations to control so much of our communications. 2. Barring 1, we should set the expectation that communication platforms should protect their users' freedom of speech, with laws to enforce this. > At the end of the day, these are private companies and they can enforce whatever arbitrary guidelines they want within the laws of the countries they op…

> Ideally, we don't allow corporations to control so much of our communications. What laws would you propose to actually implement this? I like free speech a lot as well, but it seems that boundaries get a bit fuzzy here. E.g. if you were to run your own forum like HN, don't you think you should be allowed to ban material from, say, KKK supporters?

>> Ideally, we don't allow corporations to control so much of our communications.

> What laws would you propose to actually implement this?

I didn't. Note that I didn't bring up laws until #2 in my previous post.

Programs which educated people on the dangers of social media the same way we educate people around the dangers of drugs and alcohol might go toward changing the way we treat these things in our culture, but on the other hand, there's enough problems with i.e. DARE that they might be counterproductive.

> I like free speech a lot as well, but it seems that boundaries get a bit fuzzy here. E.g. if you were to run your own forum like HN, don't you think you should be allowed to ban material from, say, KKK supporters?

I think if you combine topic-based moderation with a vote system, you don't need to ban KKK supporters. On a system like HN where all posts are in the same data stream, racist posts are going to be downvoted fairly quickly. And if someone posts racist comments on a post that isn't about race, it's off-topic, so topic-based moderation says it's okay to delete it. It's not a restriction on free speech--it's keeping topics organized to maintain the functioning of the forum.

The key exception here is that when the topic is race, then you don't delete racist comments. This is uncomfortable, but racism doesn't simply go away because you censor it--if anything, censoring a racist makes them feel they are a martyr, and strengthens their beliefs. Instead, if you leave the posts up, users will respond to them with the truth. Countering lies with truth is more powerful than countering lies with censorship.

There's a tendency, I think, to see bigotry as a monolithic problem in a person, without any reasoning behind it. But if you actually listen to bigots, you'll often discover that behind the bigotry they have legitimate fears and problems, and they think bigotry is the solution to those problems. Part of the problem we have in the US that those who value equality and acceptance too often see bigots as just bigots, and forget that they are people. If we see them as just bigots, then they can't change, or aren't worth changing, and we can discard them. But that hasn't worked--that's why we have the administration we have now.

Instead, I think we need to see bigots as people, and try to address their fears and problems with facts and truth. (Most) bigots don't benefit from their bigotry--bigotry doesn't solve their problems, and prevents them from seeing the real solutions. So if we can show them the real solutions to their problems, they might see they don't need bigotry any more.

Civil rights leaders of the past understood that a conversation about race had to be an actual conversation, not just shouting your ideals and silencing your opponents. If you refuse to listen to bigots they will refuse to listen to you. It's not us versus them, it's us and them versus ignorance.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those weapons at the time were....muskets, bayonets. They had no vision of the M-16, AK-47, etc. The statement of the 2nd Amendment begins with, "A well regulated militia..." So let's well regulate it. According to Wikipedia: In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent up…

"They had no vision of the M-16, AK-47, etc. " They also had no vision of the Internet. So, obviously, the First Amendment only applies to quill pens and manually-operated printing presses. Right? "The statement of the 2nd Amendment begins with, "A well regulated militia..."" If the First Amendment had read "A well-educated legislature being essential to the governance of a free state, the right of the people to keep…

That's a clever analogy.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#334
post #5

Who wants to open a free-speech based forum site?

Voat already exists and already has a reputation for being both terrible and a ghost town.

Is there a Voat for people who don’t want to see racism?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average city dweller in the US doesn’t own a gun either. There are plenty of guns around, but often it feels more like a boogeyman than a real threat.

Is this statistically true? It's not even slightly true in my experience, but I've lived in NY, Philly, and Texas...

Every major city in Florida and North Carolina checking in here. The majority of professionals that I have befriended over the years have gun collections and more than a few wear concealed ankle guns everyday, even in the office. These are heavily conservative finance folks though so maybe it’s a gun demographic. Surely there are stats on ownership we can see.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah, ya, "conspiracy forums" with a "crazy" tossed in. Welp, no point in discussing it then. Case closed. "Hilarious" even... Clearly he needed all those guns for... "You can't keep up that rate of fire no matter how many mags you've got" Citation needed. You could make shot timeline with the audio. It's 101 that changing mags is faster than switching guns. I have most if not all of the footage, there is nothing there…

Just saying, the only place the cover up story goes around is conspiracy forums. If you've got a non-crazy story (didn't call you crazy, you didn't provide anything but a vague suggestion), have at it.

Since you are the authority on what is "crazy" and seem to think someone needs more than one gun to fire that many rounds, there is no way I can have a real discussion, it's "crazy" by def.

Did anything remotely interesting happen in SA soon after?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please man, the pre-Heller 2008 argument of “well regulated” where you need to pretend means “lots of regulations” and not the real meaning of “well trained and in good working order” is tired. Leave that nonsense at Reddit. I used to... I still find it interesting how the “collective right” angle is pushed post Heller and MacDonald with the obviousness that’s always been there of “can you read the rest of the right…

So where's the training?

Well, there used to be some YouTube videos on proper firearm maintenance and safety...

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#338
I am concerned about how this will affect some educational channels.

A good example is Forgotten Weapons (https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons). It's a vlog about interesting old firearms. These are often supplied for the videos by an auction house that is selling them, so the guns are literally for sale. But these are massively expensive, antique weapons, many of which require a Federal Firearms Licence to own.

The same goes for manufacturing ammunition. Handloading is very common in the precision shooting and hunting community. I don't see how it would facilitate gun violence. I would suspect that less than 1% of firearms related murders use hand loaded ammunition.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#339
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be moving from an era when internet censorship was considered bad, to one where "It's OK, we're just censoring this". I have no sympathy towards gun use - but the principle of large monopolies applying their own morals to censor content seems wrong.

I disagree with this, I think it's fine for large web companies to apply their own morals. The problem I have is that they're having their cake and eating it. To me there are two models: - You are a platform, you don't moderate content (although you do respond to law enforcement), you are not responsible for the content on your site. - You are a media company, you do moderate content, you are responsible for the cont…

What are their morals? If corporations even have morals, the morality based decisions seem purely based on some unknown to me outrage/butthurt quantum. So this fluctuates quite a bit depending on many factors. Interestingly, since social media can be used to manipulate opinion pretty easily (eg, CA) large companies can bootstrap outrage according to their true values.

This could end up being a maximizing rule for revenue. So a pseudo morality may be as simple as “legal, pr coverage, max revenue).

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#340
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Societies evolve and social views change. That's why we have principles and constitutional rights. So that our rights aren't taken away on a whim of societal change. I'm from NY and I've never owned a gun and I probably will never do so. But even I would be against repealing the 2nd amendment. The fact that people here are so openly talking about repealing the 2nd amendment and taking away more of our rights is rea…

> That's why we have principles and constitutional rights. You never had a constitutional right to owe a firearm. This is legal nonsense put together relatively recently, starting as answer to the Black Panthers arming themselves and then later some politics. Please look at https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/nra-guns-sec... > From 1888, when law review articles first were indexed, through 1959, every sin…

> Everyone who used their money to support the proliferation of guns have blood on their hands.

Note that among US states, there is no correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and gun homicide.

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