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Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

nytimes.com

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Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#331

Post by conanbatt »

s73ver_ wrote: post #289
conanbatt wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the exact opposite, the ones that propose regulation are often benefited by it. For example, who could benefit from regulation of bitfinex? You? Or Coinbase?

Both. Unless you are trying to insinuate that having protection against obvious scams is a bad and selfish thing.

Are you asking the protections for yourself or the protections for other people?

Because i never asked for the SEC to protect me. We can live in a world with both. You have coinbase with way more backing that bitfinex, and people still choose bitfinex. Let people choose, and if they mess up they mess up.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#332

Post by Daishiman »

conanbatt wrote: post #328
Daishiman wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people can make choices collectively and that affects all of us. No man is an island. If people choose to engage in activities that end up affecting negatively the rest of us through externalities such as pollution, corruption, and the destruction of economic value, sorry, but historically people don't just stand by idly and let others destroy the societies they've built.

How is people buying tether and getting screwed related to you? What is the externality they are imposing on you? Also even if that were true, it would show something else: the entitlement of doing something unto others to your own benefit. Isnt that always the reason to apply force?

It's related in that those phenomena can cause an economic crash and the the losses of bad investments affect families, dependents, and the long-term health of societies.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#333

Post by s73ver_ »

conanbatt wrote: post #331
s73ver_ wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both. Unless you are trying to insinuate that having protection against obvious scams is a bad and selfish thing.

Are you asking the protections for yourself or the protections for other people? Because i never asked for the SEC to protect me. We can live in a world with both. You have coinbase with way more backing that bitfinex, and people still choose bitfinex. Let people choose, and if they mess up they mess up.

Yeah, no. Again, you're arguing for the "freedom" to scam people. Not gonna happen.

And you don't live in isolation; you are not an island. Those people that get scammed? They're not going to do so in isolation. That's going to have a ripple effect on the rest of society.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#334

Post by conanbatt »

Daishiman wrote: post #332
conanbatt wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is people buying tether and getting screwed related to you? What is the externality they are imposing on you? Also even if that were true, it would show something else: the entitlement of doing something unto others to your own benefit. Isnt that always the reason to apply force?

It's related in that those phenomena can cause an economic crash and the the losses of bad investments affect families, dependents, and the long-term health of societies.

Even the most stringent and controlled economies can prevent crashes. Thats not what the SEC does as a purpose or as a result. Let alone in this space.

Bitcoin is entering another stage now where its resistance to this will be tested, hard.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#335

Post by conanbatt »

api wrote: post #170
conanbatt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting thought to me right now is how the situation will develop if or bitfinex/tether crashes the market hard. I am not a fan of the SEC getting involved. Taking crypto as an experiment, I think it is better for the market to take a hit and then find organic solutions. If the SEC gets involved and busts bitfinex/tether, the community loses the opportunity to become 'unbailable'. Yes , people will lose…

I wish people would find organic solutions, but history shows that people reliably fall for the same scams over and over and over again. Gambling is one of the oldest economic activities and remains as profitable as ever. I've been shocked before at how little due diligence large investors sometimes do, especially when a mania is in effect. These are professionals whose job it is to invest wisely. What do you think t…

"They" or "We"?

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#336

Post by cma »

rebuilder wrote: post #304
cma wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

I remember mt. gox very well. They started having withdrawal delays, and then halted withdrawals of BTC as well as USD altogether, precisely because keeping withdrawals open would have been so expensive as to be impossible. I'm saying Bitfinex has no magic way around that, either.

That was the end-game. They didn't have enough reserves to cover liabilities long before there were outward signs.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#337

Post by acct1771 »

jzymbaluk wrote: post #179
acct1771 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked great in 2008.

It actually did. The market was on it's way to crashing harder than the great depression, but it didn't, probably thanks in some part to government being able to intervene and control monetary policy

Holder, in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, after, well, not doing his job prosecuting banks: “I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if you do prosecute, if you do bring a criminal charge, it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy.”

Soon after he was done with his effective regulation, according to you, he returned to his job...defending large financial institutions...at Covington & Burling LLP, D.C. law firm.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#338

Post by acct1771 »

luckydata wrote: post #176
acct1771 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked great in 2008.

You know what? It did. You still have running water. Government employees like cops and firefighters and teachers are getting paid (sometimes not enough). So yeah, it worked great.

"People in Africa are starving, so you're having a great day!"

Bullshit argument, I'm sorry.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#339

Post by acct1771 »

monktastic1 wrote: post #178
acct1771 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked great in 2008.

I didn't say it was perfect. I doubt that whatever "organic" solution we're hoping the crypto community will self-enforce will be either.

If something bad happens, it will be the will of the 51%, not the .01%.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#340

Post by rebuilder »

cma wrote: post #336
rebuilder wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember mt. gox very well. They started having withdrawal delays, and then halted withdrawals of BTC as well as USD altogether, precisely because keeping withdrawals open would have been so expensive as to be impossible. I'm saying Bitfinex has no magic way around that, either.

That was the end-game. They didn't have enough reserves to cover liabilities long before there were outward signs.

That's true, but I don't recall any indication of them faking ticker data.
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