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Chrome Won

andreasgal.com

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Re: Chrome Won

#331

Post by drdaeman »

ultim8k wrote: post #294

It's not only chrome. Actually Google, FB and Amazon have eaten the whole IT market. There is no space left to innovate or do anything else. They will copy the shit out of you in no time. IT is a lost ground.

There is some space, but it's highly unlikely it'll be explored by anyone with enough weight to make an impact.

I'd really want to see a browser that's a collection of very loosely coupled independent cooperating programs. There are Uzbl and Surf, but they're only modular systems around a big monolithic core.

That would mean the real end of the browser war, because there won't be any browsers. There will be rendering engines, there will be UI layers, cookie storages and databases, data synchronization programs, etc - and compilations of those (because while everyone wants to have flexibility options and ability to customize and control, no one normally wants to build system piece by piece).

I doubt something like this would happen.

Re: Chrome Won

#332

Post by DonHopkins »

utku_karatas2 wrote: post #31

Mozilla the foundation did deserve this. This is what you get when you force a perfectly technical CEO out and let the MBA types steer the ship. A browser is a forever bleeding edge tech; you need engineers all the way to the top. They chose political correctness over technical prowess and the product has lost the edge.

Stop spreading misinformation. Brendan Eich left Mozilla of his own free will. You're lying when you claim he was "forced out". Quite the contrary. They begged him to stay.

"Since then, there has been a great deal of misinformation. Two facts have been most commonly misreported: 1. Brendan was not fired and was not asked by the Board to resign. Brendan voluntarily submitted his resignation. The Board acted in response by inviting him to remain at Mozilla in another C-level position. Brendan declined that offer. The Board respects his decision." [1]

The only people who were "forced out" against their will were the Californian citizens who were forced out of their existing legal same-sex marriages, thanks to the anti-gay propaganda than Brendan Eich willingly and unapologetically paid for.

You're the one who is choosing to propagate the political correctness of homophobic politicians fighting against marriage equality, by misstating the facts and parroting lies to make a politically motivated point in the defense of bigotry, then projecting your own political correctness onto other people.

And you're also wrong to believe that he could have steered the ship away from where it was inextricably headed. Or do you honestly believe that homophobes are the growth market for web browsers, so as a high profile anti-gay-marriage pro-Prop-8 poster child, his bigotry-inclusive outreach to countries like Indonesia, which he claims have many oppressed gay-marriage opponents who support him but don't "have quite the megaphone", could have turned the ship around? [2]

"Now, in his first interview on the subject, Eich is responding with a message that Mozilla is at its core inclusive -- not just of gay-marriage supporters but also of people like him or gay-marriage opponents in Indonesia who also are part of the Mozilla cause."

"For Mozilla, it's problematic because of our principles of inclusiveness, because the Indonesian community supports me but doesn't have quite the megaphone."

Eich also stressed that Firefox worked globally, including in countries like Indonesia with "different opinions," and LGBT marriage was "not considered universal human rights yet, and maybe they will be, but that's in the future, right now we're in a world where we have to be global to have effect." [3]

"Actually, Mr. Eich, right now we’re in a world where you have to not be a bigot if you want to be an effective leader of an organization like Mozilla. And it’s about time."

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignat...

[2] https://www.cnet.com/au/news/mozilla-ceo-gay-marriage-firest...

[3] http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/03/brendan_e...

Re: Chrome Won

#333

Post by keybits »

drdaeman wrote: post #322
keybits wrote: post #317

The only thing preventing me from switching from Chrome to Firefox on the desktop is poor support for multiple profiles. Chrome's 'People' feature is essential for my workflow. (I know you can launch multiple Firefox profiles, but it's awkward at best.) On Android, Firefox is my favorite browser. So much better than Chrome. Thank you Mozilla :-) Now please make using multiple profiles on the desktop as easy as Chrome…

Check out container tabs. Either built-in (activate with `privacy.userContext.enabled` and `privacy.userContext.ui.enabled` in about:config) or if you don't mind some telemetry (non-sensitive stuff but YMMV) and random updates you can use their Test Pilot experiment https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/containers (or you can just grab yourself an XPI and update on manual basis).

Thank you, container tabs look great :-)

Re: Chrome Won

#334

Post by wmeredith »

gkoberger wrote: post #51

I agree with this blog post. But I don't think Mozilla lost. I worked for Mozilla for a few years, after seeing John Lily (CEO at the time) speak. It was right after Chrome started getting popular, and a smug person in the crowd asked him about how he felt about Chrome. John's response was awesome. "This is the web that we wanted. We exist not because we want everyone to use Firefox, but because we wanted people to h…

Thanks for posting this. I was going to say that I'm pretty sure Chrome exists at all because Mozilla won.

Re: Chrome Won

#335

Post by Klathmon »

coldtea wrote: post #237
lewisl9029 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that Mozilla's original mission has been accomplished in spades, but I wouldn't count Mozilla out of the browser race just yet. Servo and Webrender[0] will completely shake up the browser landscape, and will allow web apps to match (maybe even surpass?) native mobile apps in terms of rendering performance. Unless Chrome, IE, and Safari can develop an answer to Servo and Webrender by the time those technologies…

> Servo and Webrender[0] will completely shake up the browser landscape, and will allow web apps to match (maybe even surpass?) native mobile apps in terms of rendering performance. Unless Firefox (and Servo) gets it GUI to not feel alien and clunky, it wont matter if it has a faster rendering engine. Rendering engines are plenty fast as it is anyway, it's CPU use and battery impact that matters to users. And when pe…

Actually JS performance isn't the bottleneck in the vast majority of cases now. JS is more than fast enough, it's the DOM that's slow. And that is what Servo is going to help with.

And as for Firefox on Android, I have plenty of hope for it. I'm seeing more and more people switch to alternative browsers for speed (the most common one is samsung's "browser" which everyone says is "super fast" but really only is a weird hack to make scrolling smooth which breaks a few standards).

Ios is another story, but at least on android if they make a damn good product, people will use it.

Re: Chrome Won

#336

Post by petra »

geoelectric wrote: post #109
aerovistae wrote: post #4

> I started Firefox OS in 2011 because already back then I was convinced that desktops and browsers were dead. Not immediately–here we are 6 years later and both are still around–but both are legacy technologies that are not particularly influential going forward. I don't understand this perspective. Browsers are legacy technologies that are not particularly influential? What? I feel like the web dominates our lives…

I was also at Mozilla during the time period Andreas outlines--I worked on the Firefox OS test team, for that matter, almost from the beginning of it graduating from Boot2Gecko as a Labs project until right before it got killed. While my perspective isn't as strategic or metrics-driven as his, I had a lot of time to observe and think as both a community member and Mozilla employee. FxOS also wasn't my baby, so there'…

Thanks for a great analysis !

What do you think about Firefox mobile, the only browser that supports add-ons , could it use it to get some relevance or is that battle lost too ?

Re: Chrome Won

#337

Post by TekMol »

Chrome won because Mozilla forgot what made FireFox successful in the first place. That it was a slim alternative to the bloated Netscape.

Everytime FireFox got some new feature I checked if they still don't support GPU accelerated Video on my Linux machine. No. They don't. They don't to this day.

This is how I imagine FireFox Devs: https://xkcd.com/619/

Chrome is simple and fast. And that's why it won. I wonder when the Google devs will forget about it and some other browser will take over by focussing on making core features work fast and flawless.

Re: Chrome Won

#338

Post by mamon »

Joeri wrote: post #243
diminish wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla lost the mobile OS war unfortunately if that what's inspiring you. What's next isn't clear to me

Everybody lost the mobile OS war. Apple lost it by getting boxed into a market share corner by android. Google lost it by losing control over android. Android OEM's lost it by getting stuck in a cutthroat competition. Microsoft lost it by being microsoft. Users lost it by having no good choices left (either go with the golden cage iphone, or go with the privacy and security mess android).

>> Apple lost it by getting boxed into a market share corner

You mean the corner where they are the premium smartphone vendor, taking 90% share of global profits? That's a great corner to be boxed into :)

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