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UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

bbc.com

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Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#331

Post by vidarh »

cmdkeen wrote: post #247
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except "the experts" were predicting terrible things immediately, not later on - remember the punishment budget necessity? As a matter of fact, I do remember the "punishment budget", the one which was mocked up for 2019-20 [1], around the time that the UK would actually leave the EU. No one expected the UK economy to crash the day of the referendum. The projections are all projections for AFTER we have left the EU,…

The language around the budget was "emergency" and "in the event of a vote to leave". You are correct the IFS analysis was about post leaving the EU, that was certainly not the spin the remain campaign placed on it. Saying "no one expected the UK economy to crash the day of" is a little odd - the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee certainly seemed to think they needed to act in the immediate aftermath of the…

Remember that we had a prime minister that lied and said he'd invoke Article 50 immediately?

All the predictions were based on a bunch of promises by certain people to make rash, idiotic changes immediatly after the vote. Promises that were thankfully broken.

Most of the conditions that these kind of predictions were made under changed the moment Cameron resigned.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#332

Post by coldtea »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #295
coldtea wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it match…

The glyphosate thing was IARC (Int.Agency for Cancer Research) deeming that it was probably cancer causing; IIRC there's evidence suggesting that the US EPA had been corrupted in order to pass glyphosate for use. The FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations) and WHO have reportedly since determined that it is "safe" [enough] for human consumption and the ECHA (Euro. Chem. Agency) have determined t…

>I prefer the EU's scientific and cautionary stance to the "will it cause loss of profit for shareholders" stance that we're going to be seeing much more of.

I might too, but the question is if they are free to make their own laws or bound to EU law. Not whether EU law might be better (it obviously will be better in some cases, and worse in others).

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#333

Post by coroxout »

alkonaut wrote: post #292

Since the actual outcome now seems to be that it'sore England leaving the UK, than the UK leaving the EU - doesn't that constitute a huge change in circumstances, enough to warrant at least a parliamentary election before the exit is triggered? I mean, imagine if the Brexit ballot had said "Do you want for the UK to remain intact in the EU, or be broken apart with England and Wales leaving the EU?" Or if it had 3 opt…

Leave would probably never have won if the ballot paper specified leaving the single market, either.

It might also not have won if the ballot paper had said "leaving will provide no extra money for the NHS, actually probably less money because the pound will be devalued and much of the NHS workforce comes from Europe, and also various prominent Leave campaigners are actually eager to dismantle the NHS and privatise healthcare bit by bit".

But, oh well, we are where we are, I suppose.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#334

Post by Sholmesy »

daemin wrote: post #226
poooogles wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They even pay mad bucks on their royals for basically nothing. Royal family costs the UK £307m (highest number) with a revenue from them of £500m [1]. Seems like good business to keep paying for them. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/is...

I've heard two different versions of this. The first being that the Royal family actually makes the UK money because they cost less to maintain than what is made up for in brand image and tourism benefits. The second is that because they don't pay tax, it means their enterprises are not as efficient and the return on the crown lands is about half of what could be expected on a normal enterprise. The source for both t…

CGPGrey's vids are awesome. Unique perspective as an American living in the UK. I highly encourage anyone interested to go seek them out.

Also, he mentions in his podcasts that he is a HN user.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#335

Post by gambiting »

agumonkey wrote: post #115
ealexhudson wrote: post #3

I'm a big believer in not having assumptions and testing things with actual experiments. This is one experiment I'd rather not be participating in, though. It's difficult to see very much positive about this move; certainly there will be some benefits, but I expect greatly outweighed by the negatives (which will include higher prices, lower employment and probably lower standards for UK workers - the EU has consisten…

It's also a very weakly motivated experiment. At least based on the morning after TV appearance of Nigel Farrage. I've rarely seen such a buffon face on someone. Less than 24h after celebrating the "win".

Don't forget that in an interview yesterday he said that if Brexit turns out to be a failed experiment, he will leave UK and live somewhere else. I'm sure his buddy Donald Trump will offer him a place to live.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#336

Post by Someone »

I know it is nerdy, but what a weird PDF (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/29_03_17_article5...)

Pages 1 and 4 are text (allow text selection), the other ones are images (on iPad)

I wonder what process could have led to that; it is not simply a matter of having one section produced in a different way from the other, as, for example, page 5 continues an enumeration started on page 4.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#337

Post by gambiting »

coldtea wrote: post #314
mrcarrot wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like a 'no', then. The UK not being able to make its own laws (as your original comment implied), seems to me to be a quite different thing to having to adopt EU directives (as you are now talking about), and I feel like it's exactly this kind of confusion (deliberate or otherwise) over the years that has contributed to the atmosphere that lead to Brexit.

> That looks like a 'no', then. I gave you a specific example. From this point on, I consider you a troll, but for the record: The play of words "directives vs laws" doesn't change the fact that UK law is trumped by EU law (sorry, "directives"). The fact that the UK can "make its own laws" is insignificant if those laws have to comply with EU directives (and if new EU directives invalidate UK laws). Nobody doubts tha…

What baffles me is why you see "but only in accordance to EU law" as a bad thing. Of course I want UK laws to be "in accordance with EU law", it's a positive thing in my mind.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#338

Post by ForRealsies »

vidarh wrote: post #288
ForRealsies wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a novelty in human history. The desire for independence, for better or worse, is human nature.

I'd say the desire to build empires is a far more dominant part of human history than fights for independence. As for novelty, apart from drawing parallels to the establishment of the US, consider also the African Union. The African Union includes every country on the African continent - 55 of them (as of Morocco joining/rejoining in January), and includes far more people, and is on a course towards similar levels of…

>I'd say the desire to build empires is a far more dominant part of human history than fights for independence.

Explaining the state of the EU to any politician in the 1940s, the 1840s, or the 1740s would assume Germany is positioning to make a financial conquest of the entire continent.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#339

Post by nicky0 »

Svip wrote: post #181
folli wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely see the advantages of having common standards, tariff agreements etc. to make trade across borders easier (i.e. something akin to the European Economic Area). I'm however also a proponent of federalism, because I believe that for a democracy to truly work it is necessary that the people still feel responsible for their votes and their decisions. This is something which I'm missing in centralised and unit…

But the EU does have a directly elected parliament? So where's the lack of democracy in the EU?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_Euro...

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#340

Post by detritus »

mpweiher wrote: post #100
fredley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the existence of the EU almost certainly prevented things getting worse. While British warships were busy heading down to reclaim the Falklands, Spain was on the verge of invading Gibraltar...

Citation needed? All I could find was that Argentina had plans to sink ships in Gibraltar.

Yeah, as someone with familial connections to both the Falklands and Gibraltar, this is absolute bullshit.

No citation needed, it's just cobblers.

There were Argentinians attempting to use Italian tech to cross the bay of Gibraltar and target Royal Navy assets at dock, but they were arrested by the Guardia Civil.

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