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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#331

Post by kw71 »

ta4567 wrote: post #16

I’ve bought and sold refrigerators and freezers from the 1950’s that still work perfectly fine. I’ve come across washers and dryers from the 1960’s and 1970’s that were still working like the day they were made. Isn't there an element of survivorship bias to these statements? What about all the 1950's fridges that didn't last until today?

Fridges have come a long way in efficiency. I cannot believe that operating a fridge from the 80s or before is not a ridiculous waste of money, no matter how inexpensive your electricity is.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#332

Post by manmal »

rsync wrote: post #288
sankalp_sans wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where we have a huge gap in device ecosystem. If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. It's a shame that appliances industry doesn't let us customize exactly what we want (that lasts longer and hence would be comforting to pay a good price for).

"If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls…

Interesting, can you please tell us how to google those?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#333

Post by ashark »

mrbill wrote: post #313
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I've had to replace the motor/regulator for my driver's side power window twice now ('05 Mitsu Galant). Fortunately it's just a $75-100 part and less than an hour of work.

Can confirm, window motor replacement's not terrible, and Youtube will probably tell you exactly how to do it for your make/model/year (did for our '01 Honda, which is the only car we've ever had power window problems with)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#334

Post by wickawic »

mrbill wrote: post #206
Keverw wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could…

That's what I do. I bought the "dumbest" TV I could find; I just want a display with speakers and HDMI inputs. Give me something I can plug the latest smart streaming box into and change that box as needed.

I just ripped the "smart" buttons off my remote and never gave the TV my Wi-Fi password. Wish I could have found a TV that was the same quality without the "smartness" but as another commenter stated, it is basically impossible.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#335

Post by x0x0 »

M_Grey wrote: post #182
Spooky23 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's razor goes on a different path if you know a little bit about the guts of the product. The difference between a top 1% appliance and an average appliance is probably less than $10 of materials and $5 in labor.

Compare the average Meanwhile my cheap apartment-scale fridge was made with chewing gum and hope.

That 25 year old refrigerator is almost certainly very expensive to operate. Look at the energy use over time: 1990 -> 2015 saw a halving of power usage (1000 kWh/y -> 500 kWh/y) -- over a ten year lifespan with CA electricity at $0.19/kWh, that's $950 in increased energy expenditure as compared to a new refrigerator. ie it would be close to free.

http://aceee.org/blog/2014/09/how-your-refrigerator-has-kept...

For refrigerators at least, it doesn't make sense to make them robust enough to last more than 10-15 years since it's worth it to replace them over that time period. My understanding is the vast majority of refrigerators are then recycled. All those metals are valuable.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#336

Post by jpindar »

coldtea wrote: post #229
valuearb wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maximizing profits also involves making products at the price points customers want. If customers don't want to pay for 50 year appliances, why should they make one?

> Maximizing profits also involves making products at the price points customers want. If customers don't want to pay for 50 year appliances, why should they make one? Are customers even offered the option? And why would "50 year appliances" have to be more expensive? The simple parts, and more basic processes used to manufacture them don't sound like costing more. And they could drop most of the electronics, IoT cra…

The average household can afford a fridge today. How many people do you know who don't have one?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#337

Post by throwappliance »

nsxwolf wrote: post #243
NDizzle wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

I hate our front loader. All our towels are moldy. I can never get the smell out. The machine emits a vile rotten egg smell during the spin cycle. I hate all our appliances. Every last one of them. From the microwave that lasted a year to the freezer that leaks water and ruined my hardwood floors. They're all garbage. Horrible, horrible expensive garbage.

Front loaders are the worst. I got stuck with one in a rental . I've managed to make it acceptable by doing 3 things.

First, I switched the hot and cold water inputs. My machine's idea of "warm" was actually more like "very very cold". Now, it gets enough heat. I also cranked up my water heater as high as it would go. These two changes effectively take care of all mildew issues. Don't listen to all of the horrible water temperature advice out there; they advocate for temps that optimize for bacterial growth. Hotter is better.

Second, I looked up videos on youtube to figure out how to make it use a lot more water. This is a relatively simple process that involved unscrewing and removing the case, using a hair dryer for 30 seconds to warm up a loctite covered screw, and turning that scree about a quarter turn. More water is always better.

Third, I ordered a giant sack of Sodium Tripolyphosphate (STPP) from a chemical supplier. Prior to that, I used to buy Trisodium Phosphate (TSP) from Amazon (make sure you get the real stuff). Both require hot water, need about a tablespoon per load, and work extremely well, though STPP is supposed to be better (I haven't noticed a difference). This has two big impacts. Your clothes, especially towels, will feel much softer and nicer. And also, your clothes will stop smelling "good", because STPP is a rinsing agent that helps get all of the soap out of your clothes. The only reason your clothes smell "good" is because modern detergents do a terrible job and the perfumes are added to cover the odor.

If you want to enter a time machine back to a magical era when appliances worked correctly, add a tablespoon of TSP to your dishwasher and run it on the hottest setting.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#338

Post by raphman »

bambax wrote: post #34

The only brands I ever buy are Miele and Siemens; they're both German; Miele has always been family owned; not sure about Siemens (huge conglomerate). Miele machines are expensive but indestructible. Siemens ones are very strong and not much dearer than other brands. Are those not available in the US?

FWIW, all Siemens appliances are manufactured by Bosch Siemens Haushaltsgeräte (now BSH Hausgeräte)[1]. Siemens sold all of their shares to Bosch in 2014.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSH_Hausger%C3%A4te

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#339

Post by Natanael_L »

manmal wrote: post #332
rsync wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls…

Interesting, can you please tell us how to google those?

Keywords frequently include terms like "digital signage", and sometimes "industrial", "commercial", etc...

You might like the one NEC makes with a slot for a Raspberry Pi:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/compute-module-nec-display-...

https://www.nec-display-solutions.com/p/hq/en/Launch.xhtml?i...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#340

Post by TimJYoung »

lf275 wrote: post #326
prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

The belief that "our cars used to last much longer, manufacturers are screwing us" is bullshit. I'm not sure if people are looking at the past through rose-colored glasses, or if there's severe selection bias (people only notice the 40 year old car, not recognizing that it only represents >1% of the vehicles produced at the time, and has received a fortune in repairs and maintenance costs), but the data is clear, our…

I would easily agree with you about cars, but do not agree regarding appliances. What the article states about appliances is absolutely true. If you look at most major appliances warranties, you will see evidence of this that is completely the opposite of what you see with cars. Cars are seeing warranties stretching to the 10-year, 100,000 mile mark, whereas warranties on refrigerators (compressor), for example, has been halved in the last 15 years, going from 10-year warranties in the early 2000s to 5-year warranties today.
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