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Switching from macOS: The Basics

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#331

Post by matzipan »

throwsincenotpc wrote: post #265
matzipan wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the article. Vala is a wonderful language, but it doesn't have the necessary tooling built around it.

> I agree with the article. Vala is a wonderful language, but it doesn't have the necessary tooling built around it. Sure but they had like 10 years to do that, I remember a french guy who ever wrote a complete IDE with autocompletition + package manager for Vala on Windows. Support from the Gnome Foundation ? zip . Oh, and I even found the link. http://www.tarnyko.net/en/?q=node/24 So the tooling my ass, they just d…

No, I'm talking about gdb support, for example. I'm talking for a testing framework (right now you have to write your own build process capable of bundling the unit tests with your source).

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#332

Post by reitanqild »

equalarrow wrote: post #330
reitanqild wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> ... and awesome UI/UX. > Is that not what Red Hat is? I thought that's what the Red Hat license provided? I won't say anything bad about Red Hat, but calling the UX awesome isn't something I would do based on my experience. Then again, they might have changed but I haven't heard anybody mentioning it. (This used to be Canonicals niche before they picked up the assumption that Mac-like == Good ; )

Fedora is ahead of RedHat server, kernel and package-wise. That's the point: pish the edge with the desktop, keep the server conservative and very stable. RedHat makes their money on support licensing for the server. Employees are paid to work on Fedora, but it is not the RedHat product.

Fedora is also the only mainstream distro I ever gave up on, admittedly 5 or so years ago but still.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#333

Post by matthewking »

jjuel wrote: post #325

I am sticking with Mac because it just works. I have had quite a few non-Mac laptops previously. They rarely stay in good working condition for more than a couple of years. I currently have the late 2012 13" retina Pro and it has shown no signs of stopping. The only other one that has the sort of quality I see in a MacBook is Dell's XPS. The developer edition has me intrigued, but I really think this new MacBook with…

I think the keyboard is tipping me over the edge on the new MacBook Pro's, its horrendous. There's no travel at all, the keys just immediately click. Interested to see what other people think about them as they start getting their hands on the new models, as a developer this is a very important aspect, and on top of the unwanted touchbar, the massive price hike, the lack of standard ports etc its all just a bit too much this time around.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#334

Post by Semiapies »

natch wrote: post #314
Semiapies wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think HN readers are so gullible as to not realize this, and that you are the only one to catch on?

I would never think that. But I was taken aback by many of the comments on this thread.

Which, the angry griping about how the distro makers want money, or the yammering about how Photoshop users should just cowboy up and submit patches to Gimp until they find it usable? As far as I can tell, the "gullibility" you think you're seeing is anyone responding in any way, even skeptically, that's not just covering their ears and going, "La la la, I can't hear your marketing!"

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#335

Post by mmorris »

mtw wrote: post #73
Void_ wrote: post #39

I'm really hoping this is just a phase. Hoping that Apple will reduce prices of new laptops and we'll be back to normal. Right now everybody is using Macs. Walk into the Bay Area coffee shop, you see Macs everywhere. I love that. I build desktop software for Macs (focuslist.co). My apps are prettier than any others. They are easier and faster to use. This is the reason why people pay me $5 while they can get the job…

I'm with you but to be objective Apple hasn't done significant efforts for the pro market in last years. They have stated the future is in the iPad. Their pro line is stagnant or receding (where is Mac OS X server, Final Cut pro dumbed down, etc.). Times are changing

> Times are changing

Times are always changing. Markets grow rapidly, and then they mature and growth gets flatter.

Specifically looking at Apple, while I agree that their focus has shifted away from the Mac platform somewhat and towards iOS, wasn't that to be expected with the huge growth in mobile and tablets over the last 10 years? Now, mobile growth is slowing[0] and tablet sales are flat/dropping[1].

Laptops aren't going anywhere... the vast majority of white collar workers use a laptop or desktop everyday. And while I can't predict what Apple is going to do (who can?), it seems unlikely that they'd completely drop a market that generated $5.7B in revenue in Q4 of 2016 [2].

[0]: http://www.businessinsider.com/smartphone-growth-is-slowing-... [1]: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/tablet-decline-q2-2016/ [2]: http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/apple-q4-2016-financial...

ETA: Btw, macOS Server is over here: http://www.apple.com/macos/server/

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#336

Post by toyg »

acomar wrote: post #228
embik wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know the GPL does not allow trial periods and asking for money later on, but feel free to correct me. That's why elementary cannot do such a thing.

GPL just requires source to be available to anyone who receives the binary. It has to be available on request. You can ask them to pay for the cost of postage to ship it to them.

Hell, you can ask them to pay anything, like RedHat does, regardless of costs. It's perfectly legal and GPL-compliant. You just have to provide sources.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#337

Post by zuzun »

throwsincenotpc wrote: post #162

They need to watch out because apparently the Gnome foundation wants to ditch Vala for Rust to cut cost and "attract more developers" : https://siliconislandblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/31/thoughts-... > and support a preferred programming language (Vala) https://launchpad.net/elementary

Oh dearie me... Everything depends on GObject, they wrote Vala to have a high-level programming language, they wrote GObject Introspection to generate bindings for all other languages, yet they think it's a good idea to ditch all of this and move to Rust (no inheritance, which is crucial for their Gtk+ widgets), only because it's so hip right now?

They lost their mojo because of their weird decisions in the past and not because their stack isn't hip. How many JavaScript developers did they attract by writing the Gnome Shell in JavaScript? And the Rust community is a tiny fraction of the JavaScript community.

They are trying to turn a donkey into a racehorse. And if they do a full rewrite, people will have forgotten about Gnome by the time they are finished. Someone give them Joel Spolsky's article on refactoring to read.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#338

Post by weberc2 »

INTPenis wrote: post #111
kybernetyk wrote: post #33

So I went to their main page to download an ISO to give it a try in a VM. They hid the download button really well: You have to type in "0" into the "how much you'd like to pay" field for the "Purchase" button to change to "Download". I mean I understand that open source projects need funding. But if you want people to try your niche OS at least make it obvious how to download it. Ask for money later after people had…

I wish I had known that trick. I payed some money for it, which isn't unusual since I often donate money to open source or activism. But this time I regret every cent. Coming from Mac OS, or even Fedora, Elementary seems unpolished and unstable.

I tried a few times to contribute to their project, but all of their apps (at the time, at least) were hacked together with no tests and poor documentation. This is all fine, everyone has to start somewhere, but they were openly hostile to suggestions of testing or new architecture. In my opinion, they had a very "we know best" attitude for a group of (almost entirely) amateur developers. :/

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#339

Post by equalarrow »

Grishnakh wrote: post #296
fizzbatter wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish someone would start a paid OS based on Linux and OSS tools. I'd happily pay $100/y (year being, new versions/etc) for a stable and awesome UI/UX. As it is, my Macbook Pro Retina has been crashing a lot and doing weird things frequently since i upgraded to Sierra. Between that and the latest Macbook Pro notebooks, i just don't like Apple anymore. I'm pretty set on buying a highend laptop _(similar build…

>I'd happily pay $100/y (year being, new versions/etc) for a stable and awesome UI/UX. Good luck with that. The problem is that no one will make a UI/UX that's both awesome and stable. It's not like the resources aren't there: there's a ton of DEs for Linux, and they've been working on them for 20 years now. But the problem is they can't ever agree on anything, and they can't ever just leave well enough alone: every…

Totally agree with this. Except, I've never liked the KDE look and feel. It's like the worst glossy cartoon ui ever. Yuk. To be fair, I haven't looked at it recently, so the gloss might have been toned down or removed.

But to your point of bug fixing, I absolutely agree. macOS is plagued by this as well, but mot to the degree Linux DE's are.

I've used multiple desktops since the 90's and loved it. macOS has had support for a while, but the animation switching from desktop to desktop was horrendous. I got a utility to fix that, but it's a joke they don't just include a checkbox to toggle the animations. This is one huge UX fail in my mind.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#340

Post by Semiapies »

Semiapies wrote: post #301
natch wrote: post #274

Please don't be so gullible, folks! When you see an article marketing a product, and they claim people are looking to switch to their product in droves, take it with a grain of salt! This is purely a promotional article, pretending to be a help article. Look at the unattributed quotes it uses. Pretty sure the part about anybody switching from anything to anything is made up. Sure people switch sometimes. Sure people…

Do you really think HN readers are so gullible as to not realize this, and that you are the only one to catch on?

Apparently, some readers do think exactly this of all other HN readers...
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