Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "When you are not in The Netherlands you should most definitely wear a helmet no matter what kind of bike." Why? It's actually not statistically safer.
* Citation needed
The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
331–340 of 612 posts
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Your comments suggest someone who doesn't do a lot of cycling in traffic. If that's what you got out of it then you're entirely wrong. I cycle a few thousand Km / year. > Correct me if I'm wrong. You say that young or old cyclists will get 'clobbered' - what do you mean by this? That the only way in which you can keep cyclists - of all ages - safe is by separating the various traffic streams. By forcible mixing the…
The point is that the non-assertive position isn't 'playing it safe'. You're no more out of the flow of traffic unless the lane is extra wide, you're signalling to following cars that they are welcome to overtake, and you have robbed yourself of any margin for error when a car misjudges their pass and squeezes you in to a parked car or railing. You're right that the assertive approach is no substitute for segregated…
Interesting. Here in NL we're taught to stay to the right hand side of the lane with about .5 meters of margin to the right relative to where the road surface ends. That way cars can overtake without possibly hitting a cyclist going the other way. Also it is strongly discouraged to cycle side-by side (but kids on the way to and from school routinely ignore that as do couples of all ages).
https://fietsmaar.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/schoorlam-n504...
Is a nice example of what the map of a road with mixed cycle/car traffic would look like, absent any markings you'd still try to re-create that situation.
Same situation in a more urban setting:
http://www.fietsfilevrij.nl/wp-content/uploads/P1030380.jpg
Cars can - and do - occupy the bike lane if they're moving, will slow down behind a bicyclist if there is oncoming traffic and will move around them when the road is clear from oncoming motorized traffic.
Everybody takes the amount of space they need, but no more than they need. To occupy a whole lane and to ignore the 'honking and shouting' (mentioned upthread) would be considered extremely rude and could easily get you in trouble because you're hindering faster traffic.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nominally they can't go faster than that. But they do.
I mean, plenty of cyclists go faster than that too, 30 km/h is not uncommon.
True. Often though these are serious road cyclicsts who do tend to wear helmets, or they're those new fast electric bikes that like to sneak up beside you going really quick.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#334I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…
> She had literally never heard of nor understood the concept of a blind spot. I've done a good amount of driving in the undeveloped and developing world (40k miles AK->Argentina, now 10k miles in West Africa, going to do about 80k) Blindspots are not considered here. Driving is much more fluid, and you really only need to watch what is happening in front of you. After all, the car behind/beside you can see you much…
> Traffic accidents are not common
Huh? Traffic accidents are very common in the developing world.
Argentina has double the reported fatality rate of the USA, Nigeria has 50× the rate.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're already locking your bike, you can loop the lock through one of your helmet straps (I do and have never had a helmet stolen, except when the whole bike was).
You can trivially undo helmet straps, because it needs to be adjusted it's not one solid piece of webbing. It stops someone from just picking your helmet up and walking away with it, but it takes no more than half a minute to undo the strap, so it's not going to stop someone intent on stealing it.
Put the lock cable through one of the holes in the top of the helmet. Now you can't get it off without breaking it.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#336Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".
Even if we just ignore the Netherlands, bike riders aren't being doored left and right in Denmark either. Sure "The Dutch Reach" is a clever trick to get people to look out for bike traffic, but really it's just common sense.
Like in the Netherlands, bike lanes in Denmark are mostly placed between the road and the side walk, so by not looking out for trafic you risk getting your door torn of by an SUV, rather than hitting a bike.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not only in The Netherlands, in most European cities actually. And if you go down to the Mediterranean countries even on motorbikes, not everyone wears on at least on city traffic. Regarding bike helmets, they usually only protect if you fall vertically on your head, making their protection capability highly questionable. They offer zero protection over getting hit by a car or falling off the bike.
That is simply not true, the helmet will be the first part of you head that touch the ground in almost any fall. Especially if you are using one of the more covering "skate" helmets. If you get hit by a car head on the helmet will also most likely be the first part of you head to hit the car. I would reverse your statement and say the helmet will only not protect your head if you fall at a horisontal, actually upward…
Statistically that is unlikely to be true. I have seen many people with injuries from falling of a bike and none of them were on anyone's head where a helmet would make a difference.
So on most accidents a helmet is not going to make a difference.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a completely different situation than the average Dutch cyclist faces. First, there are no hills to be seen, so not that easy to pick up speed. Especially on a city bike which is 99% of the fleet. It's unusual to even reach 20km/h. People carry their shopping, kids, furniture and pets in them. They cycle in whatever they are wearing - suits, skirts, jeans, whatever; the fact you can just hop on a bike without…
> There was also this study from a university in Utrecht showing that [in the Netherlands] cyclists wearing helmets are more careless and cause more accidents, nullifying any safety benefit.. Are there any links in English to that study? Someone said only people racing (or with racing bikes) trend to wear helmet in Netherlands. Knowing that it feels like that study confuses correlation with causation, but a universit…
There's an article here implying drivers cut closer when they wear helmets http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10866273/Cycle-h...
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interestingly, in Germany there are some bicycle "hub" cities the prototypical example would be the city of Münster. My very unscientific feeling is that it's mostly mid sized cities with a university campus (especially if it's a multilocation campus spread across the entire city like in Münster). Apart from the cities, there's also some pretty nice longer distance bike tracks. I belive Germany has one of the best bi…
its the same in karsruhe, Germany. Medium sized and a university campus (though not that many bicycles, it think 28% of all movement in the city is done by bicycle), but we are improving :D
In Münster it's 40% (number of trips). About two bicycles per citizen. 7% don't own a bicycle, 45% own two or more. Also highest rate of bicycle theft (10 per day). There's a longer abstract in German discussion the reasons why the ratio is so high https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radverkehr_in_M%C3%BCnster. Basically university town, no hills and historically lots of road infrastructure that favors cyclists.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#340I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…
No, some Americans don't. Some of my fellow countrymen are so self-absorbed it doesn't even cross their mind their actions might impact someone else. You'll also see people opening their doors into traffic on very narrow streets.