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The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#331

Post by saynsedit »

sergiotapia wrote: post #51
tamana wrote: post #37

As usual, WaPo is shitposting. Why are they not banned here? Yes, people are deeply curious about the full effect of this huge proposed change, especially the half of the entire population who voted for Stay because they weren't too worried about the UK/EU boundary when they were happy enough with the status quo total package.

HN users in general lean heavily left (at least publicly).

Actually I think HN leans center. HN has no particularly inspiring agenda, it's mostly conformity to the status quo. There are extreme left and right on HN but they are usually down voted.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#332

Post by delboy88 »

projectramo wrote: post #120
mc32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, if that's not an elitist take I dunno what is. Maybe we should require IQ tests for voters, eh? Don't want the working class voting against the elites, now.

It may be elitist but it is not irrelevant in this case. The question being asked is, literally, which side is less likely to even know what the EU is.

I wonder if they at least know what the word literally means.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#333

Post by deciplex »

emsy wrote: post #167

What I're read so far about pro-leavers: -They are stupid. -They are xenophobic racists (over 50% of the population!). -Trump welcomes the Brexit, so being pro-leave is stupid. -Old people vote "leave" since they don't have to face the consequences as long as the young people, and old people have no clue. -"Leave" votes come mainly from E.U. subsidized areas, thus they bite the hand that feeds them. -Pro-leave doesn'…

What if over half the population is racist and stupid, though? I don't want to get into an argument about whether that's actually true of Britain, but if you would indulge the hypothetical: what do you do at that point? Is it right, in a democracy, to try to disenfranchise and demoralize racist bigots with nothing to offer but an endless supply of bad ideas? Is it time to just give up on democracy altogether at that point?

What's the answer? It is something you should consider, because while you can argue it isn't actually true in this case or that, certainly you have to admit it is theoretically possible. It seems like a failure mode one should anticipate and be prepared for. (I must admit, I have no good answers, and so am not prepared.)

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#334

Post by Inthenameofmine »

mstade wrote: post #313
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they are rare, and limited, and like in Switzerland not something pulled on a whim but actually requires some work to call, they might just work. In Switzerland you essentially vote on 2-5 issues every quarter. I think this very regularity has educated the people. It also helps that by law, if you vote on a proposal that would increase spending, you aso vote on how much your taxes increase. In the case of the…

Sorry, that should say "when they are regular" – not rare. Have edited my post. Do you find the regularity of referendums naturally makes people more inclined to be educated on the issues at hand? Anecdata obviously, but nevertheless interesting.

Most definitely, yes.

That, and the fact that there is no real parliamentary opposition vying for as many populist points. (see my other comments in this thread).

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#335

Post by skocznymroczny »

nbouscal wrote: post #147
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

What prominent lies from Remain? There was a lot of what people were calling scaremongering, but if you look at the markets it looks like it was pretty accurate. I've seen thorough takedowns of blatant lies from Leave, but haven't seen anything similar for Remain.

The markets are in panic mode for the moment, but it will recover, it always does.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#336

Post by k__ »

zghst wrote: post #284
k__ wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fallacy. The big business that decides is the media.

The media is a big business owned by special interest and wealthy elites. Obviously all the scare tactics used in the media did not work on the voters.

I think it was exactly the opposite.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#337

Post by DominikR »

Why can't these people just accept a democratic decision without painting those who voted in an undesired way as retards?

Every major voting decision in the last 10 years was painted (in basically all media) as the smart and educated ones vs the retards, bigots, racists or even nazis.

With this attitude we are one step away from abolishing democracy altogether. Obviously because we must protect the stupid ones from their own opinions.

I originally came from a Communist country and I've got to say that over the years all mayor western publications have turned into something resembling the Soviet Pravda.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#338

Post by thomasahle »

psyc wrote: post #253
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

Maybe politicians should have to pass a semi-"objective" process that is like the ideal for university admissions. They have to demonstrate (in a formal way, not by spending millions to broadcast their message to the people) that they are smart and prosocial.

I don't actually doubt most of the politicians are pretty smart. Cameron elegantly managed to use the promise of an EU election to form the first majority government for 30 years. Now Boris Johnson managed to use the election to get Cameron to resign and possibly tale over the government himself.

If only they used their smarts.. smarter.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#339

Post by sbmassey »

aidos wrote: post #222
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

So I was thinking today, we could weight the votes by life expectancy. The fewer years left in your life, the less your vote counts. In this case I wouldn't have to go home and explain to my children why it is that they probably won't be allowed to go and live in Europe for a bit when they hit their 20s anymore.

So I imagine that mens votes would count less than womens, at a particular age, and similarly for people in high risk occupations or who are obese or who have a fatal disease.
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