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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#331

Post by jsn117 »

dharma1 wrote: post #290
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

A lot of businesses, including startups, will consider where they need to be based for access to a European single market. Until today that was likely to be London.

mostly Ireland for tax reasons

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#332

Post by dang »

sandworm101 wrote: post #136

But you assume that people in the UK have an alternative to those German cars. They don't. Germany makes better cars than anyone else. Brits will still buy them, they will just now be more expensive. Two words: British Leyland

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11966471 and marked it off-topic.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#333

Post by glenndebacker »

You know what I shows a lot how trustworthy a Great Britain is. Begging (you know the period where De Gaulles had his veto ?) to get in the EU because their economy was not doing great and from the moment that there are some problems, instead of dealing with those problems getting out.

That being said as a European I couldn't care for the fifth "biggest" economy and I really hope that the EU keeps their 2 year timeline (if no deal can be reached in that timeframe it should be over) and deals on EU terms. They should not give a Switzerland or Norway deal without a hard bargain. My country and region is exposed a lot (jobs at our own country btw, trade,... ) and we where slowly recovering and now we are kicked down again. In the future we need to look for better and reliable business partners.

Also it's sickening to see how this give extreme right wing parties (and not right wing in the American sense, but really racist xenophobic parties) a boost. All old is new again, it is only 70 ago years we saw the same uprising of these kind of parties. I do hope that this doesn't jeopardize peace at the main land, that I fear the most. I can only imagine that a Putin is having the day of his life.

On a political sense I think in the end the EU can be possible better of, they never had a constructive attitude. With all the special statuses it got, it was already an island in Europe.

Btw seeing how the Euro is also falling, the whole idea of a weakened pound which have a positive impact regarding trade is also seriously backfiring. UK goods and services are still as expensive, maybe more after today.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#334

Post by ZeroGravitas »

thewarrior wrote: post #242
martythemaniak wrote: post #13

Is Scotland going to be exiting the UK next? Guess we'll see in a few years. Hard to know what will happen here, but I suspect once the UK (or what's left of it) signs a trade deal with the EU, they'll get the same deal as Norway - all the compliance with EU regulations, with none of the say. I suppose people may be happy with that deal, as long as they can get to say they're "free". I'm hoping this somehow leave the…

I feel that the growth of Fascist sentiment worldwide can't possibly be a coincidence. Globalisation and it's benefits are being questioned. People are disappointed. Even this vote , is actually a vote of dissatisfaction against the status quo. They just managed to direct enough of that anger against the EU. I'd like to suggest the following three hypotheses and hear what you guys think : 1. As growth slows , liberal…

The main voices for Leave where strongly pro-globalization. So it'll be interesting if they try to use this as a mandate to go even further on all this stuff.

Is the UK unique in having pro-immigration, anti-immigration parties? It boggles my mind, and doesn't get discussed much even in the UK. (I suppose Trumps incoherence, and lack of walking the talk, is actually very similar, now I think about it).

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#335

Post by Retr0spectrum »

disordinary wrote: post #309

The average age of someone who is voting to leave is above 60, the average age of someone who is voting to stay is below 35. The older generation have voted for something that the younger generation did not want but are now stuck with. They have voted away their future for short term gains. The sooner the baby boomers are all retired the better.

They still vote when they're retired.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#336

Post by mrb »

darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

Being an EU member means free movement of capital, goods, and people.

Trade deals cover "capital" and "goods", but usually not "people". So concretely speaking, labor costs will rise in the UK (due to a reduction of cheap workers immigrating from other EU countries to the UK) and the country will start experiencing a deficit of highly skilled workers¹ (due to educated workers not able to immigrate).

¹ Of all places, the HN community should be familiar with this issue, because it is often discussed in the context of the US ("startup visa", etc).

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#338

Post by ThePhysicist »

beninvalencia wrote: post #122

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

This is exactly the kind of lose-win or lose-lose discussion that everyone (well 49 % of people) wanted to avoid. Asking who will profit from this or who will be on top is not relevant probably, because each side will lose now (at least in the short term) the question is just how big the losses will be. Also, bear in mind that the UK will not only have to rearrange its terms with the EU, but with more than 50 non-EU countries as well.

Leaving the economic impact aside, the societal and demographic implications are just as important (for me) and a very hard to predict. Great Britain might very well fall apart over this, as Scottish politicians already announced that they will push for a leave if the UK leaves the EU.

For me, this thing is just the biggest and most catastrophically failed political gamble of the century. Times are strange indeed.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#339

Post by sverige »

paganel wrote: post #304
beninvalencia wrote: post #122

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

> The scaremongering goes on even after the vote has been called... The terms are simple: You can't have free movement of goods without the equally free movement of people. As long as people in the UK are ok with the free movement of people (even though the fight against it was a big part of the "Leave" campaign) then I would see no reason why us, the rest of the EU people, should impede the UK products' access to th…

But most of the immigrants are coming from outside the EU. There's the rub.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#340

Post by imperio59 »

The most interesting thing is the age distribution of votes: HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain

Read into it what you wish, but this really sucks for the younger generation who did not want this yet will be stuck with this decision, likely for their entire lifetime.

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