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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#331
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why I'm getting downvoted! Don't you want to hear WHY people paying those rents or you want to believe everybody paying those rents are just plain stupid?! Markets are smart!

Up-voted, Are average SF rents that high? Boston is probably less than half that cost, with salaries comparable to the west coast and similar cultural events and excellent public and private schools. Weather is not that great though. Genuinely asking - So what makes SF so worth it, that it justifies its high cost of living? in comparison to other top class states, is it just the weather?

jobs. You can be a half-assed engineer here and be employed; if you're good, you have dozens of choices of place to work. Whenever I ponder leaving (and I'm a data scientist, so more specialized) I look around at cities like Salt Lake or Denver or other places close to good skiing and see like 3 employers. Total. What happens if I don't like my job / my boss changes / whatever? I'd probably have to move. It's just a ton of risk for the employee.

And not just jobs, but other people who do the same thing that you can learn from. And full stack: from the people building javascript libs to new programming languages (swift, rust) to chips (Apple, Intel, hardware startups), etc.

Proximity to the outdoors. If you want great surfing, hiking, skiing (well, ex the drought years), climbing, camping, etc -- it's here. And the state is dry, so no mosquitos or flies. ie it's much more enjoyable to be outside than in the midwest. It's fun to be outside 340+ days/year.

Non-competes are invalid by state law. And this isn't a theoretical problem; I had a job offer withdrawn in NY because the new employer's counsel determined they were covered by then-current employers non-compete contract and they didn't want the hassle.

People who view quitting their jobs and starting companies as merely modestly crazy/risky, instead of something only a lunatic would do.

Oh, and as for your average rents: yes. You can get cheaper rents, but at the price of shitty public transport, a terrible commute, and a lack of local services where you live. Which is particularly punishing if you don't own a car. sf as a city is run by worthless idiots who decided to play city, so big pieces of it have terrible (unreliable, slow, unsafe, etc) public transport (yet it manages to be some of the most expensive transit in the nation as the cherry on top). Plus there are 3 public transport systems that essentially were built independently and operate without any coordination, two of which only serve pieces of the city (muni, bart, caltrain). And until the age of uber a taxi system that specialized in shitting on their customers. Because where, besides sf, would a taxi that actually comes be worth paying a 50% premium ala uber when it debuted? So yeah, wildly incompetent city government.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#332

Yes, rents are high, but if you invest even a little bit of time you can find a fine residence in the Bay Area for a lot less than $4,500. I rent a two bedroom house in Oakland for $2,200. My commute is not too much longer than it would be if I live in certain parts of San Francisco. There's simply little advantage to living right in the heart of a major city. You have to ask yourself: "Instead of renting in a high-p…

Did the same math for living in San Jose... With the price difference in rent, you could literally hire a private car plus driver to take you to-and-from the city every weekend. The most insane part is the people who commute down to MTV (eg. Google) and only really get the benefit of the city on weekends anyway...

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#333
post #213

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

$18,000 per year in your 401k, $5500 in an IRA, $3350 in an HSA. That's $26,850 right off the bat. All tax free. Then max out your student loans and save up for the down payment on a house. Then date and find a spouse with a similar mindset about money. You'll be able to retire (literally never do work you don't want to do ever again) in 15-20 years easily if you keep your spending under control.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

Where in WV? I can't find food after 10pm.

Lewisburg, it means getting fast food or going to a tavern, but the choices are more than I had in the peninsula.

Morgantown also has late hours in my experience, though you might have to walk to High St.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#335
post #2

Portland resident here. What this article doesn't cover, is now locals are victim of gentrification. Rent prices are almost 2x, out of state buyers are throwing all cash offers on houses, and overall housing supply is low... I'm sure the commercial market is just as bad. Interesting times.

> locals are victim of gentrification

You say that as if gentrification is a bad thing.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#336
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

I find it to be one of the mysteries of bay area. I don't understand how a city this size can manage to have nothing open after 10 pm. Is there a reason to this? Surely it can't be all shop owners getting to gather and saying ok let's all close shop at 10..

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#337
post #131

Yes, rents are high, but if you invest even a little bit of time you can find a fine residence in the Bay Area for a lot less than $4,500. I rent a two bedroom house in Oakland for $2,200. My commute is not too much longer than it would be if I live in certain parts of San Francisco. There's simply little advantage to living right in the heart of a major city. You have to ask yourself: "Instead of renting in a high-p…

Well you also have a significantly higher probability of getting shot when you live in Oakland. So there's always that.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#338
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similarly worth noting that CA has the highest income tax rates of any state in the nation for most individuals. For instance, for incomes between around $51k and $263k the rate is 9.30%. My state's rate is 4.25%, which is closer to not having a tax at all.

As a guy from Europe I don't know much about the US tax system. If somebody mentions he earns $120k, I assume that's gross salary? What does he usually end up with net? From what I understand it depends on the state. Is that 4.25% you talk about the only tax there is?

4.25% in payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), federal income taxes range based on how much you make and how big your family is. Large family making little, 0%; Single making $120k, your highest marginal rate is 28% but it will average out to an effective rate around 17% in my experience. State taxes range from 0% in Texas to what the other posts say about California.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#339
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

Everything closing at 9PM is pretty much par for the course here in Vancouver, another city with the skyrocketing cost-of-living thing going on. I wonder if there's a correlation. Maybe everyone is rich enough to pay delivery services or maids or something to get their shopping done while they're at work, so there's no demand for 24-hour businesses? Then again, another thing with Vancouver (that I think I've heard sa…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#340
post #213

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Thought that might be interesting, it was to me (came upon it on HN).

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