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Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

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331–340 of 471 posts

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#331
post #89

Right now I don't know if I'm more impressed by AlphaGo's artificial intelligence or its artificial stupidity. Lee Sedol won because he played extremely well. But when AlphaGo was already losing it made some very bad moves. One of them was so bad that it's the kind of mistake you would only expect from someone who's starting to learn how to play Go.

Maybe it has never been in a losing position before?

The overwhelming majority of games it played were against itself. So yes, it has been almost the same number as it has been winning.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#332
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly many pre-modern, pre-civilizarion humans were assholes. Read many studies or accounts of life in relatively isolated tribal societies and hair curlingy awful accounts of violent and sometimes institutionalised abuse are uncomfortably common. Leave the safety catches off basic human urges for long and it can get pretty ugly.

> Frankly many pre-modern, pre-civilizarion humans were assholes. While it's somewhat news to me, I'm very glad to hear we've moved past that.

I hope that was irony.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#333
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Lee could use this as a way to crack AlphaGo?

From my limited knowledge of the game, a few of the moves that Lee made before AlphaGo "lost its mind" were a tad on the aggressive side. The conventional wisdom in Go is to prefer more conservative moves (increasingly so as the game progresses). Usually, if your opponent is being overly aggressive then you want to play more conservatively and wait for them to make a mistake, but in AlphaGo's case, it attempted to ma…

This is by design and admitted by the developers - in fact it plans only for what it judges optimal opponent moves. A modification to the game may be to keep on reserve a set of options for nonoptimal opponent play although in actual practice the simplicity of design here (maximize probability of winning and only plan on optimal opponent moves) may be one reason why it plays as well as it does.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#334
post #266

Relevant tweets from Demis; Lee Sedol is playing brilliantly! #AlphaGo thought it was doing well, but got confused on move 87. We are in trouble now... Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87 When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 Lee Sedol wins game 4!!! Congratulations! H…

OT: What's with using monotype for quotes? That's breaks line wrapping and makes it hard to read on mobile or small screens. I don't get why people do it.

"People" don't do it; HN does it. Indented lines in a post are always monospaced, on the assumption, I suppose, that they're likely to be code examples. There's no way to turn this off AFAIK.

And no, HN does not use Markdown.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#335
post #328
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT: What's with using monotype for quotes? That's breaks line wrapping and makes it hard to read on mobile or small screens. I don't get why people do it.

I think mostly people forget that > works and that therefore you can do > quotes like this since it's markdown - often you get commentish things that allow limited HTML plus indented code blocks, and people get used to using the latter as the only thing that works everywhere

'>' doesn't "work"; it doesn't do anything on HN. It's just a convention that readers recognize as indicating quotation.

HN does not use Markdown.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, not to belabor it, but if you can do something like be a champion in go or chess, chances are you have the mental skillset to do something exponentially more lucrative.

I dunno, Bobby Fischer was kinda deranged, for instance, and that often hurts outcomes in otherwise "lucrative" positions. Incidentally, he is credited with raising chess player compensation through his demands. Generally I'd guess you're right though.

Maybe not a leadership position but I've worked on the engineering side of quant work and am familiar enough with fairly advanced Go / Chess players (e.g. national youth champions for age brackets for the US) to know that most of them could make enough to retire off one years salary during the boom years of algorithmic trading (~2003-2007ish).

I'm not sure how you define "deranged" (AFAIK, that's not a medically defined term within the DSM-IV) but most of those brilliant people end up being a little 'off'. My father was an academic, one of the people he went to graduate school with was working in Boston while I was a child. He was absolutely groundbreaking work but he's so difficult to collaborate with (think: the mannerisms of Richard Stallman) that he's been floating around universities until his welcome is worn out. He can figure out remarkable things in higher level computational chemistry, but he can't really figure out humans. Had he decided instead during the 80s to work at Renaissance instead of pursuing academic research, he almost certainly would be worth in the low hundreds of millions.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#337
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think mostly people forget that > works and that therefore you can do > quotes like this since it's markdown - often you get commentish things that allow limited HTML plus indented code blocks, and people get used to using the latter as the only thing that works everywhere

'>' doesn't "work"; it doesn't do anything on HN. It's just a convention that readers recognize as indicating quotation. HN does not use Markdown.

I noticed people were doing this and wrote a userscript a while ago to make it work. I kind of wish HN supported it.

https://gist.github.com/kennethrapp/7a21c0187fedd6f47e7c

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#338
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best (like absolute best) football|basketball|baseball players in the world make approximately what per game?

Well, defensive end Olivier Vernon just signed a deal with the New York Giants which will pay him an average annual salary of around 17 million dollars. And there was a huge signing bonus as well.[1] NFL seasons are 16 regular season games, plus 4 pre-season games. And then there are the playoffs, which a given team might or might not make or advance in. All told, given that the signing bonus is amortized over all th…

Osweiler QB from the Broncos just signed a huge deal with the Texans...$18mil/year but I haven't heard how much of that is guaranteed so I'm sure.

A really big issue with NFL contracts is this "guaranteed money" thing...I believe the NFL is the only major US sports league who give player contracts without it, so you have to take those salary numbers with a grain of salt.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#339

Relevant tweets from Demis; Lee Sedol is playing brilliantly! #AlphaGo thought it was doing well, but got confused on move 87. We are in trouble now... Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87 When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 Lee Sedol wins game 4!!! Congratulations! H…

It feels really weird to see someone being showered with congratulations for beating a computer program. What exactly is he being congratulated for? For probably triggering and then capitalizing on a bug in AlphaGo's AI? For showing that human resolve, perseverance and a "fighting spirit" can trump a flawed AI, at least until the AI gets fixed? For giving DeepMind extremely valuable test data that will only accelerat…

>For helping to advance an amoral field of study that can potentially delegitimize everything that currently makes humans

Or, writing from the point of view of our mechanical successors to this world, for helping to advance a highly ethical field that could exterminate that genocidaly murderous evolutionary abomination that was the human race. Who incidentally thought they were extraordinary but couldn't even play Go.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#340
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone wondering, that's Ubuntu Linux (version most likely 14.04; Unity interface). off-topic: DeepMind should switch to a tiling window manager like i3 for increased keyboard-only productivity :)

Probably Goobuntu. ;-)

Probably not, as they are not sitting on a corp workstation on the corp network :)
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