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Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#331

Post by emodendroket »

geertj wrote: post #316
erkkie wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything specifically missing on android side except the PR? Seriously asking if I'm missing something. The nexus series has comparable crypto hw and similar options for encryption + wiping.

Two things come to mind. First an equivalent of the secure enclave. Second a single company that is willing to go this far to protect its users. For Samsung this is complicated because both Google and Samsung are involved, and Samsung is not a US company so I'd expect them to cave in under pressure from the US govt more easily. Edit: a Nexus device bought directly from Google with the right hw may address both points…

> For Samsung this is complicated because both Google and Samsung are involved, and Samsung is not a US company so I'd expect them to cave in under pressure from the US govt more easily.

Why? I'd expect just the opposite.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#332

Post by 72deluxe »

Udik wrote: post #308
geertj wrote: post #305

I've been very impressed with what I've learned in the last few weeks regarding Apple's efforts to provide privacy for its customer using what it seems some very robust engineering and design. I'm currently an Android user (Samsung S6 edge) but am considering seriously going back to the iPhone because of this. The cynical side of me says that Apple's marketing tactics have worked. But I've got a feeling, heck, I want…

Do you really need such strong security? Or after the FBI forced Apple to apply their best engineering minds to crack your phone, they'd just find a grocery shopping list and pictures of your cats? Because this sounds a bit like Tesla's "operating room air quality" - something that might be useful 0.001% of the customers, and it's just marketing for the remaining 99.999%

Do you drive around in a 1 litre CC car? Or do you buy a car with a bigger engine?

In both cases, when was the last time you drove it at its maximum speed all the time? Or ensured that you were using maximum torque at all times and always sitting in the maximum power band for the engine?

If you find that you haven't done these things, you probably should ask yourself why you have a car, right? After all, you're never going to drive the full speed of the car, so why have the car in the first place?

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#333

Post by richmarr »

geertj wrote: post #305

I've been very impressed with what I've learned in the last few weeks regarding Apple's efforts to provide privacy for its customer using what it seems some very robust engineering and design. I'm currently an Android user (Samsung S6 edge) but am considering seriously going back to the iPhone because of this. The cynical side of me says that Apple's marketing tactics have worked. But I've got a feeling, heck, I want…

Maybe I'm being cynical, but if I were Apple and had just been forced to implement back doors with a gag order, I might be announcing that my new phones were unhackable too.

Is anyone aware of anything that makes this more than a leap of faith?

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#334

Post by Udik »

unprepare wrote: post #327
Udik wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you don't need it, but you'll have fun every day with it. While you'll never be able to enjoy the difference between "almost unbreakable" and "unbreakable".

and whats the cost differential to me as an end user? And whats the difference to me between 452 ppi or 532 ppi? I'll never be able to enjoy the difference between the two, yet i would still go for the higher ppi all else being equal.

It's never the case of "all other things being equal". The GP was saying that he switched from Apple to Android - presumably because there was a relevant difference between the two - but he's considering switching back to have a feature that he'll never use.

Of course there is always an appeal in the numbers. I'd go for a 40MP camera instead of a 20MP one - who cares if the quality of the lens is such that there is no difference beyond 10MP. It's marketing. It's curious how people so wary of being observed or exploited make themselves so prone to basic manipulation by entities who want to get their money.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#335

Post by 15charlimit »

Udik wrote: post #325
vlunkr wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's not really about my personal security because, you're right, there's nothing interesting on my phone. My issue is with one entity having access to ALL of our phones. Have you read 1984? Because that's what that sounds like. It's too much power for the government to have.

I think I missed the part where anybody asked Apple to build a backdoor into every phone that could be accessed without appropriate control from the authorities and without passing through Apple each time. Of course I'm not saying that your data should be uploaded daily to a government's server for anybody with a badge and free time to spare to look through.

Yes, you did miss it. The FBI/etc are very clearly and deliberately looking to set a precedent for use in any and all future instances. Just because you don't seem to value personal privacy and security doesn't mean the rest of us are willing to throw it away for no good reason.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-standoff-escalates-local...

http://www.leadertelegram.com/News/Front-Page/2016/02/20/Off...

http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2016/02/18/sf-police-c...

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#337

Post by parenthephobia »

Udik wrote: post #326
mkhalil wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but "unbreakable crypto" is the only right crypto.

Of course. And 11000 meters waterproof is the only waterproof acceptable for a watch. And operating room clean air is the only clean air. And obsidian blades are the only ones that deserve to be used in your kitchen. And triple malt, 60 years aged whiskey is the only whiskey. Etc.

The reason not everyone has the best watches, air conditioning, knives, or whiskey is that, for physical products, quality tends to cost more.

There is no reasonable argument to be made that people shouldn't have higher quality products when they _don't_ cost more^.

Apple only have to develop "unbreakable" encryption once and then it costs them no more to make it available in every iPhone than to only make it available in some of them. Indeed, it'd be cheaper than maintaining both breakable and "unbreakable" variants.

There are arguments to be made about the secure enclave hardware, since it presumably costs more to make it more tamperproof.

However, securing iPhones against this particular "attack" appears to be a software issue: iOS should never apply updates without an authenticated user approving them first.

^ For the avoidance of doubt, this includes externalized costs.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#338

Post by jonknee »

TWAndrews wrote: post #238
jonknee wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the NSA really wanted to crack the Secure Enclave, I have very little doubt about their ability to carry it out. Well they certainly really want to crack the Secure Enclave, so maybe this case is moot.

The NSA cracking the Secure Enclave is not the same as the FBI cracking the Secure Enclave.

If the NSA can't crack the Secure Enclave in a terrorism case, it's not super useful that the NSA can crack the Secure Enclave.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#339

Post by Dylan16807 »

Udik wrote: post #326
mkhalil wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but "unbreakable crypto" is the only right crypto.

Of course. And 11000 meters waterproof is the only waterproof acceptable for a watch. And operating room clean air is the only clean air. And obsidian blades are the only ones that deserve to be used in your kitchen. And triple malt, 60 years aged whiskey is the only whiskey. Etc.

>11000 meters waterproof is the only waterproof acceptable for a watch

It depends, how many meters does it have to claim before I can make sudden movements and god forbid press the buttons underwater?

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#340

Post by unprepare »

Udik wrote: post #334
unprepare wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and whats the cost differential to me as an end user? And whats the difference to me between 452 ppi or 532 ppi? I'll never be able to enjoy the difference between the two, yet i would still go for the higher ppi all else being equal.

It's never the case of "all other things being equal". The GP was saying that he switched from Apple to Android - presumably because there was a relevant difference between the two - but he's considering switching back to have a feature that he'll never use. Of course there is always an appeal in the numbers. I'd go for a 40MP camera instead of a 20MP one - who cares if the quality of the lens is such that there is n…

ah, i'm thinking more of something like WEP vs WPA2 - like, why the heck would i want to downgrade my crypto?

I agree there may be other reasons the user switched, but maybe they switched to android because they believed it to be more secure? Or maybe the user wants to vote with their wallet for the company they see as most in support of security/privacy.

I do agree though, switching for a feature you are unlikely to use is silly, but i think there are definitely reasons enough to make a switch like that from a 'voting with your wallet' type standpoint

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