Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 707 posts

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#331

Post by EthanHeilman »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #170
EthanHeilman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linking to a post on the website of a White Supremacist organisation such as AmRen (American Renaissance) will probably hurt your argument more than help it. >Jared Taylor founded The New Century Foundation[0], a self-styled white supremacist think tank known primarily for American Renaissance, its online journal. The journal promotes pseudo-scientific studies that attempt to demonstrate the intellectual and cultural…

I don't understand - a white supremacist took a quantity from the DOJ, then took a percentage from the DOJ, and multiplied them together to get a new quantity. Does multiplication become invalid when a white supremacist does it? Or do DOJ stats become false when a racist cites them? Please, I would like to understand your logic. I do find it a bit scary that when I google "black on white crime", only racist sites sho…

The source of information matters. This is doubly true for statistical claims since:

* statistics are often counter-intuitive,

* they are easy to manipulate or misinterpret,

* manipulation requires significant effort to discover,

* they are sometimes correct in form but the data is biased,

* bias in the data might have been mentioned by the initial data collectors but the analyzers may omit it (either intentionally or accidentally).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#332

Post by rayiner »

vox_mollis wrote: post #231
rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, at least allegedly, real conduct that was, among other things, the reason those Yale students were angry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/0... . Something real is by definition not a straw man.

They turned away people from a party. From a PARTY . Not a job interview, not a restaurant, not a mortgage lender, not social services. A party. Social discrimination happens all the time. As a nerd, I've been (back in a time when nerds were shunned) uninvited or turned away from parties plenty of times. Nobody protested on my behalf. This entire brouhaha over people feeling not-as-popular-as-the-cool-sae-kids is rid…

They were, allegedly, turned away from a party at a school-sponsored organization (a fraternity) on account of their race.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#333

Post by afarrell »

talmand wrote: post #204
yummyfajitas wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - a white supremacist took a quantity from the DOJ, then took a percentage from the DOJ, and multiplied them together to get a new quantity. Does multiplication become invalid when a white supremacist does it? Or do DOJ stats become false when a racist cites them? Please, I would like to understand your logic. I do find it a bit scary that when I google "black on white crime", only racist sites sho…

It's a common tactic, attack the source of data to avoid discussing the data.

In theory, we should all be able to evaluate the validity data on our own, so this tactic is dumb.

In reality, we have no practical way of doing this. So, whenever we cite a source of data, we are implicitly saying "This is a credible source for the statement is making. You can trust that they have done the work to make sure they aren't just repeating their own biases." And in the case of some organizations and people, you actually cannot say that.

If the American milk board makes a claim about the health benefits of milk, it is not a fallacy to be skeptical of that claim.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#334

Post by derrickdirge »

intortus wrote: post #227
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Doesn't matter. There's an anecdote about a student being a crybaby and that's the biggest threat facing humanity today. Get with the program. We can deal with the Christians once we sort out the safe spacers.

I wish someone would do something about the way these "Safe Spacers" make me feel!

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#335

Post by ebola1717 »

ucaetano wrote: post #154
EthanHeilman wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some…

I agree with most of the points you made, specially that there must be safe spaces, but I don't think an university classroom should be one of them. Your home? Yes. A doctor's office? Yes. The student counsellor's office in the university? Yes. And so on. "Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions" That makes no sense in a university IMHO. Students could be excused of classes due to previo…

The cases where people are asking for classrooms to be "Safe Spaces" the way you're describing them are the minority. Most people are asking for exactly what you're suggesting - provide warnings for people that might need to remove themselves, but have uncomfortable discussions in the classroom. The whole idea of a "trigger warning" doesn't work any other way.

At Mizzou, they demanded a separate "safe space" because they were literally being sent death threats, which is a separate way to use the idea, and which, in the light of the past week's events, were not unwarranted.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#336

Post by arrrg »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

In the name of hating on PC for completely irrational reasons everything is fair game for certain people.

You see, they hate it so so much. Ugh, so icky.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#337

Post by cm2187 »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #314
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Is HackerNews a safe-space for programmers? If you say anything negative about PG or silicon valley, you are downvoted. If you don't follow its rules, you are banned. If you don't have the same opinion as everyone else, don't follow the strict posting guidelines you are kicked out. It's philosophy is all fund raising capitialism, if you try something crazy you don't get funded. Isn't HackerNews just an extreme safe-s…

Ha ha. I remember writing a comment raising the problem of competence of software developers, given that anyone can call himself a developer and that we still have so many developers writing new sql injections vulnerabilities and making other security 101 bad design decisions. The reaction was to say the least hostile. It's all about budgets, bad bosses, etc.

Being safe from criticism.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#338

Post by tptacek »

vox_mollis wrote: post #231
rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, at least allegedly, real conduct that was, among other things, the reason those Yale students were angry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/0... . Something real is by definition not a straw man.

They turned away people from a party. From a PARTY . Not a job interview, not a restaurant, not a mortgage lender, not social services. A party. Social discrimination happens all the time. As a nerd, I've been (back in a time when nerds were shunned) uninvited or turned away from parties plenty of times. Nobody protested on my behalf. This entire brouhaha over people feeling not-as-popular-as-the-cool-sae-kids is rid…

Is this a real comparison you are really making? Between discrimination against African Americans and discrimination against nerds?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#339

Post by jMyles »

sotojuan wrote: post #318
jMyles wrote: post #212

It doesn't help that campuses increasingly operate like day cares: they treat adult students like children. A great example is orientation. Throughout the US, until fairly recently (at my Alma Mater, SUNY New Paltz - it was 1973), orientation was 100% run by students with no state or 'administrative' involvement. And it was an adult event. It involved camping, orienteering, and serious discussions about the life ahea…

I wonder how much this has to do with the general baby-ing of people of all ages. Kids don't play outside in the woods any more, parents pick up kids from their bus stops, etc. Is this because parents complained?

I can't speak, or at least not much, to the changes that occurred in the 70's.

But they are still happening today, and they are decidedly NOT in response to parents. At all. In fact, parents have very little power to effect change at a SUNY school as far as I can tell.

Rather, these seem to be directives coming from Albany (or beyond) and disseminated at conferences that are attended by Student Life "professionals."

For example, go to just about any state school (including a SUNY) and take a walk around the Student Union. I'll bet that you'll notice that it is swarming with state officials - typically students who work part time for the state in a "Student Activities" office.

Maybe you'll see one of their managers, a "Director of Student Union Services" or something similar. Ask how many people worked in that office 10 years ago vs. today, and I'll bet that, more often than not, you'll find that the size of these offices have increased by 50% or more during that time.

The consequence is that student governments, who traditionally ran all the operations of Student Unions and did a great job of it, are now pushed out of this function, in favor of state officials and state directives running them instead.

And these state directives almost always include infantifacation of events and decor in the Student Union.

I have observed this phenomenon at SUNY New Paltz, Binghamton University, the University of Connecticut, UMD College Park (although the food co-cop there is amazing and serves as a partial counter-example) and half a dozen other campuses.

Every time I ask about it, I'm told that it's part of a nationwide trend.

It's bullshit. It's very expensive (compared to the shoestring 2.5-3.5 million dollar budgets that student governments typically work with) and it's making Student Unions spiritually and academically hollow.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#340

Post by coldpie »

LunaSea wrote: post #306
coldpie wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks need to have thicker skin Why? Congratulations on being such a paragon of excellence. Why should we require such virtue of all humans? Instead of expecting you to develop a thick skin (are you sure this is a good thing?), why can't we try to reform your aggressors in the first place?

Because it goes against the first amendment.

Outside of those that are controlled by right-wing Christian extremists, I'm not aware of any government in the US passing laws to restrict first amendment rights. Care to elaborate?
Post reply on HN