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The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

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Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#331

Post by FilterSweep »

dsacco wrote: post #4
tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

Try explaining to her about the case of some gay men in the middle east using the website discreetly who run the risk of death after this leak: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=10084651 (citing a reddit post).

And, if you are comfortable putting her in a precarious position, you should ask her if she honestly knows of any of her girlfriends who have cheated before. Or, more simply, if any of her girlfriends are not single and have a Tinder account. I've noticed the "shoe on the other foot" has silenced many of the Twitter camp.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#332

Post by tomjen3 »

harryf wrote: post #131
dgfv1 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm obviously a dick because I already sent automated messages to relatives of people in the hack indicating to them that they were potentially cheated on. Personally I would want to know so I share that information.

Good thing you did it anonymously. We wouldn't want you to have to face any consequences for your actions. Let's hope you're not responsible for something like this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-dad-kills-fami...

That is going a bit too far - the same thing could happen if somebody told him because they saw the wife having sex in a cheap motel, or found out for any other reason, would you still think they were guilty then?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#333

Post by Karunamon »

tptacek wrote: post #330
Karunamon wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a lot more worried about the identity theft implications of the leak than the "this will destroy the relationships of cheaters" implications. The cheaters deserve to be outed. Fuck 'em, let the world know their word is worthless. And as to the question as to whether they're actually cheating or not, let's be honest here - precisely nobody signed up for a site who's advertising and stated reason for existing is ex…

And the people on the site who are not cheaters, and not willing to help someone else cheat?

Why would someone sign up and pay for a site that advertises like this[1] if not to utilize their services?

[1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=ashley+madison+advertising&b...

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#334

Post by the_af »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #283
dsacco wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

I think there are three questions here. Is it legal. Is it moral. Should it be legal. The last is quite complex and I won't get to it here because of the vast differences in moral theories as to what should and should not be legal. As to the first, is it legal? Hacking isn't. The end. But the middle question is interesting, and I dare say that many people have views such as my own, where morality is not dependent on…

I think you have the right approach, but infidelity is not "strongly immoral" in the sense that it entitles you to publicly humiliate people you aren't in any way related to. It's a private matter between two (or actually, more) people. Your spouse has the right to tell you what you did is "strongly immoral", but Joe Public doesn't. I have zero respect for someone from the public who thinks their moral outrage entitles them to shame someone else for who they have sex with.

"Strongly immoral" which belongs in the public sphere is more like human trafficking, murder, corruption in public office, etc.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#335

Post by worklogin »

Karunamon wrote: post #322
tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

I'm a lot more worried about the identity theft implications of the leak than the "this will destroy the relationships of cheaters" implications. The cheaters deserve to be outed. Fuck 'em, let the world know their word is worthless. And as to the question as to whether they're actually cheating or not, let's be honest here - precisely nobody signed up for a site who's advertising and stated reason for existing is ex…

Regardless of my potential issues with tptacek, I stopped reading at

>The cheaters deserve to be outed.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#336

Post by fweespeech »

antillean wrote: post #212
zamalek wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> God-given natural status The "God reasoning" isn't the only reasoning. Just like polygamy is a choice, so is monogamy. It's a sexual choice. What is wrong is that people can't be open about that choice. People should be able to be open and honest about being polygamous or monogamous with their partner - yes, that might sometimes result in the relationship ending; but there's a good chance where there is a disagreem…

> "Either way, debate about polygamy vs. monogamy in this case-scenario is completely irrelevant. Someone was hacked, privacy was violated (it doesn't matter what privacy) and that is the end of that. There's no reason to attach another argument to the discussion because the hack was an outright violation in the first place." Is it that simple? Would the outright violation of a hack be the end of the story if we were…

> Is it that simple?

Yes. The legal system is responsible for bringing criminals to justice. The system maybe imperfect but its better than vigilantes with a deeply held, righteous cause who honestly believe their targets to be evil. Fanatics of all stripes see themselves in that light and that kind of thinking is extremely dangerous. In truth, it should only be used in the event a blood revolution is the only option available to the citizenry.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#337

Post by cinquemb »

briandherbert wrote: post #253
tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

One source of your frustration is that you're viewing all the individuals on Twitter as if they're a single entity that's also adamantly against profiling. "how do you make a case that it's unethical for dragnet traffic..." You're assuming they also hold other popular views you've seen on Twitter, then calling them hypocrites.

Some want to define terms with clear broad strokes and become frustrated when their observations don't lie clearly along those partitions. A good experimentalist would then simply change how they define things in order to have partitions that match their observations more closely, but that is not the case for most, especially if ones living depends on it (observations tend to be highly skewed).

Something about infosec/def contractors arguing ethics I find quite comical, especially since governments and their contractors don't sit down with AT&T and the like and discuss the nuances surrounding the ethics of what they wanted done with customers of such over crips and tea (at best it was probably limited to lawyer speak with the providers in some secret court with secret rules),and then discuss how most of the work would be outsourced to private companies/individuals to "protect information" (information collected from providers who collected it from customers) from the "outsiders" (customers of such providers).

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#338

Post by [deleted] »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #291
ZoFreX wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this poster: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/3ebzzj/i_may_get_ston... there is not a requirement to be in a relationship to use the site. And now he might die, because of the leak.

>And now he might die, because of the leak. Isn't this akin to blaming Snowden/Manning for diplomatic fallout instead of blaming those who were engaging in the wrongful practices that led to the fallout.

[deleted]

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#339

Post by the_af »

animefan wrote: post #294
dsacco wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

I'm think disagreement is not about privacy per se, but rather the absolute moral correctness of our legal principals. E.g. other people in this article have commented that people who have affairs deserve to be punched in the face (which is also illegal). I think engineers tend to place higher values in legal principals, because (a) we tend to prefer rule based solutions and (b) the tendency to allow exceptions to th…

People who have affairs arguably deserve to be punched in the face by their spouses (figuratively speaking; I don't advocate actual violence), not by Joe Public.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#340

Post by tomjen3 »

daemin wrote: post #11
crb002 wrote: post #7

The list of .gov and State govt email accounts is public transparency. Someone should extract those and turn them over to Muckrock.

You'd have to be really thoughtless to use your work or official government email account on a dating site, let alone one with a shady premise such as this.

True, but there are plenty of idiots everywhere, including in government.
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