Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

hello-world.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 351 posts

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#321

Post by declan »

sedachv wrote: post #291
declan wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cheaper than I thought it would be! But if you're trying to get to a job in San Mateo from someplace like Gilroy or Hollister, that would be a bit of a hellish commute. Maybe you could pull it off more easily if you work off-hours? Also if you're within an hour's drive of San Jose you may be paying Silicon Valley prices for new construction, which tends not to be cheap. But if you're willing to live that far f…

Thanks a lot for the airplane tip, I had no idea you could get a decent Cessna 172 for 20-30k. That would certainly be an awesome commute.

Quite welcome! Engineers (I take it you are one) seem to make natural pilots, in my experience.

I don't own a plane but have in the post thought idly about commuting to the SF bay area from the Sierras. I've heard of pilots doing it from Pine Mountain Lake in the foothills, for instance, and a faster plane would make living in Nevada doable.

Trade-A-Plane lists 145 Cessnas for sale under $30K, though most in that range are 152s. There are a few older 172s: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+P...

It would be nice to have the additional capacity of a 172, especially if you want to (a) fly with two friends, for three people total or (b) you're a large or heavy person yourself, which might exceed the maximum payload of a 152 with a similarly large or heavy flight instructor or passenger. Also I don't think 152s can be IFR certified.

It is kinda funny that these older Cessnas are now cheaper than the average car! Anyway, good luck on your project!

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#322

Post by downandout »

What he doesn't say is that savings from his programming work have likely enabled him to enjoy the "escape" of farm life while supporting two kids. How many farm hands have enough free cash to support children and have a computer/phone/internet connection from which to blog about the wonderful experience?

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#323

Post by vogt »

magice wrote: post #146

You know, farming may be wonderful and all. But it's not silver bullet. Nor does it make programming any less rewarding, provided that one does it right. In fact, it is YOUR OWN DAMNED fault if you fail to sing with your children while you worked as a programmer. Wait, it's your own damn fault for pretty much everything in your life. Programming is not the disease; you are. I know people who finished extra degrees wh…

The valid points that you are making are getting lost in the hostile tone. The article is about finding one's self (the author), not everyone's self.

Farming isn't a silver bullet, but neither is programming. Of course. I see the value, appeal, and benefits in both. I don't believe the author intended to label programming a disease for anyone other than himself, so vilifying him for it seems pretty harsh.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#324

Post by monkeypizza »

jalcazar wrote: post #249
crimsonalucard wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

No. Matthew Dillon doesn't need to work but keeps working on DragonFlyBSD. Also it is possible to live and work as in retirement http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/fisherman.html

I can appreciate the story - it's a paean to a lost world when we didn't need to be competitive. The thing is, money provides more power for the fisherman, which he would need if his environment changed:

-rebuilding after an earthquake -fleeing if the local government goes bad -dealing with a crash in tuna price

We all still live in a competitive environment. Hunter-gatherers were replaced by massively-reproducing (but probably unhappy & unhealthy) farmers. In the example, fishing represents pure surplus value, produced from nothing - and in economic situations like that, producing less than others means you'll eventually be out-competed and replaced.

In reality the same tragedy of the commons applies to fishing, and we haven't solved it there either.

Until competition is restrained, we've gotta compete. Individuals can opt out but they're just removing their traces from the future - those left will still be struggling until we have a way to globally eliminate environments which force people to be maximizers. And in a big universe, it's uncertain whether we can ever really control enough to be able to relax. It may even be computationally impossible to really stop the continuous evolution of competition in how we live life

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#325

Post by crpatino »

sliverstorm wrote: post #301
crpatino wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting to speculate why is it that religious groups fare better in this kind of arrangements. I think it has to do with 2 things: The ability to shame individuals into compliance without resorting to violence, and the ability to shut off free-loaders. That's the problem with intentional communities. Everybody (claim to) have the best intentions, until push comes to shove and you have to actually put your s…

I would focus on one even-simpler thing: Power structure. Religion usually has a built-in power structure that nothing else has been able to replicate.

I beg to differ on the monopoly of religion over the power of hierarchies.

Take the military by example. They have a remarkably good track record of literally sending men to die, in full knowledge that their chances or survival are negligible.

There are many other less dramatic cases: at work in both the private and public sector, at the school's social dynamic, at charitable organizations, and yes in the church.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#326

Post by JDiculous »

ashark wrote: post #68
rmsaksida wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind being behind a computer for a good part of the day (even if you're able to take a break to get some fresh air on occasion). Otherwise, it will have the effect it seems to have had on the OP, and ultimately leave you wishing for something else. I don't know if that's true for everybody. Being behind a computer all day long is what I've been doing since I was 8.…

I'd be a lot happier as a programmer if I could do it only about 20 weeks a year. Hell, I'd probably gladly work 60+ hour weeks then. 40 hours week after week and I slowly grow to hate it. If only programming work were seasonal. 1/3 of my work weeks programming, 1/3 studying, practicing music, and doing non-programming creative work, 1/3 physical labor and building things with my hands. That'd be my perfect life, I t…

I agree with this 100%. I wish it was more acceptable to take a hiatus from a traditional full-time job. I would love to take 3+ months off this summer to travel around the world since I've never gotten a chance to, but there's no way my company would allow that. Therefore the only way for me to take 3+ consecutive months off would be to quit.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#327

Post by technomancy »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #236
jorgeleo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The farm life works for some people" I agree. I couldn't do farm, I have bad allergies to pollen, dust, and too much time under the sun and I become red as a lobster, and it is painful But programming is what I love to do. So I will say "The programmer life works for some people" I wouldn't call the original article "The death of a programmer", I would call it "The born of a farmer". He figure out were he feels happ…

As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would. I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still work and we're all working towar…

"If you really want to do something you’ll do it at night. You know, Bruce Wayne had a day job. He was Batman at night. If you really want to get something done you’ll just do it." - Nicholas Gurewitch (of pbfcomics.com)

I'm semi-retired and living in Thailand where the cost of living is a fraction of my (modest for a programmer) life in the US. I don't code as much as I used to, but I still write a fair bit. But it's not for the same reasons; now I'm coding in order to teach my children, and hopefully eventually other children too.

I certainly don't see myself spending my time coding another database-backed CRUD web application any time soon; instead it's games and art and possibly soon music. It changes things, but it lets you do it for the reasons that matter instead of just to feed yourself.

> if ever we became so filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we would.

I disagree; "programming" is far too broad a field to make generalizations like the parent makes. I suspect "growing food" is too, though I agree it's probably true of any farming on a scale larger than your own back yard.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#328

Post by technomancy »

logicalmind wrote: post #126
ryandrake wrote: post #48

I don't know--good for this guy, but there's no way I'd do it. I got into technology in order to avoid a life of back-breaking manual labor. When I was a kid I had to go help bail hay on a farm, and then graduated to assisting my father doing construction jobs. Nailing shingles to a roof under the sun all day in the middle of the summer is great motivation to go for that job in an air conditioned office.

I was in the same boat. The comparison should really be about the long-term downsides. Sure, the sedentary lifestyle of computer work could cause various ailments. But the farm lifestyle will cause its own long-term ailments. Everyone is built differently, so there is no guarantee of health on either side. Eventually, both forms of work will catch up with you. It's just a matter of which one you can personally handle…

Unfortunately the follow-up post 12 months from now once the romantic ideals fade won't make it to Hacker News, if it even gets written.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#329

Post by sliverstorm »

crpatino wrote: post #325
sliverstorm wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would focus on one even-simpler thing: Power structure. Religion usually has a built-in power structure that nothing else has been able to replicate.

I beg to differ on the monopoly of religion over the power of hierarchies. Take the military by example. They have a remarkably good track record of literally sending men to die, in full knowledge that their chances or survival are negligible. There are many other less dramatic cases: at work in both the private and public sector, at the school's social dynamic, at charitable organizations, and yes in the church.

But militaries don't form hippie communes, at least that I've ever heard of.

Re: Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

#330

Post by timc3 »

xrange wrote: post #239
jorgeleo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The farm life works for some people" I agree. I couldn't do farm, I have bad allergies to pollen, dust, and too much time under the sun and I become red as a lobster, and it is painful But programming is what I love to do. So I will say "The programmer life works for some people" I wouldn't call the original article "The death of a programmer", I would call it "The born of a farmer". He figure out were he feels happ…

>I have bad allergies to pollen, dust Interestingly enough, if you had grown up on a farm, you many not have developed allergies... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20497148 https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=allergies+and+growing+u...

I grew up on a farm and had terrible allergies as a kid, so bad that I couldn’t go outside sometimes.

They cleared up a year after leaving that life.

Post reply on HN