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Announcing the Surface 3

blog.surface.com

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Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#321

Post by bandrami »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #114
cwyers wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like the Surface 3 is coming out a few months too early in some respects, as the disk space improvements in Windows 10 are going to make it a lot more palatable on the $499 model: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-wind...

This is my feeling as well. I just don't want a Windows 8 machine. Its clear it was a transition OS full of compromise, half cooked ideas, and a "lets just ship" mentality, which MS had to embrace considering it was practically a non-player in the mobile space in 2012. I'm hoping 10 comes out with a more refined understanding of modern OS expectations, especially when your OS is both a desktop and mobile OS. I find i…

> especially when your OS is both a desktop and mobile OS

I'm curious: does anybody besides OS developers want this to be the case? I don't want the way I interact with a tablet to be the way I interact with a laptop or a desktop.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#322

Post by bandrami »

tjoff wrote: post #133
Vexs wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't even use a computer that's less than 4 gb these days, especially once chrome gets it's grubby hands all over my RAM. Just running baseline I find that most windows systems take up about two GB of RAM, and after you load up chrome, word, whatever; it hits the 4GB+ range. I mean, we're starting to see phones with 2GB of ram, it's completely unacceptable for a modern tablet.

8 GB is absolute bare minimum in 2015 (I'd say 2012 but the world seems to disagree). I'd be very hesitant buying something today that didn't have 16 GB. Unfortunately that is quite hard to come by in the ultrabook range. But 2 GB? And maximum 4 ? Just kills me inside. Way to ruin the device.

Depends. My development machine is a laptop with 4G of RAM (but a terabyte hard drive). Then again I rarely even fire up X11 when I'm programming, so my needs are pretty sparse.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#323

Post by Corrado »

freehunter wrote: post #305
aasarava wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's Kindle Fire naming is equally painful. There's a Fire HD 7 and a Fire HD 7". Try buying accessories for the right one.

But then again, try buying accessories for the Kindle Not-Fire. First off, you have to figure out how to search for Kindle without Fire results coming up. Then you have to try to figure out which generation you have, when Amazon themselves don't tell you that anywhere.

Maybe hardware manufacturers should do like car companies do and use a model year. "Yea, I have a MacBook Pro 2015 but its about the same as my Surface Pro 2017".

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#324

Post by Corrado »

gress wrote: post #315
mikeash wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MacBook line has been a mess for years now. There was a bad point when they had retina and non-retina versions for the whole Pro line. The iPad line is becoming pretty nuts. They simultaneously advertise the iPad Air 2, the iPad Air, the iPad Mini 3, the iPad Mini 2, and the original iPad Mini. Even iPhones are starting to suffer from this. It used to be obvious (either pick the best, or decide how much less you…

I'll concede that the iPad line is weird, but I just don't agree with the pattern you are trying to make for the rest of them. I don't agree that 2 sizes of iPhone is any different from 2 sizes of laptop or two sizes of iPad.

Actually, there are 4 sizes of iPhone currently on the Apple store; 6, 6+, 5s, 5c. That gives you 3 different screen sizes and quite a few color and storage options. I find the current state of the Apple catalog to be depressingly complex and look forward to when there are 4 models to choose from; Business/Consumer, Portable/Desktop. But that's just me.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#325

Post by m0skit0 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #252
m0skit0 wrote: post #220

Most important question is: can I install Linux on it? (Haters gonna downvote)

It's x86 so probably? Enjoy your downvotes for being antagonistic, though.

Yeah, I really had hard time sleeping because thinking of the downvotes...

Linux supports any architecture, that doesn't matter. I'm asking if anyone has tried or knows about this: Is there a bootlock? What's the shipped BIOS? Question is legit, this is M$ we're talking about, not precisely known for its openness. And just for asking, I'm being downvoted and called "antagonistic". You fanbois are just hilarious. It's called "freedom of choice". Yes, that actually exist outside your little world where companies decide what you have to use. I prefer to make my own choices. I might like the hardware design (which is actually nice, and M$ usually makes nice and functional hardware) but I don't like Windows. Period. In fact, I'm not even surprised of your answer and the downvotes, didn't expect otherwise from M$ fanbois ;)

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#326

Post by Dylan16807 »

m0skit0 wrote: post #325
Dylan16807 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's x86 so probably? Enjoy your downvotes for being antagonistic, though.

Yeah, I really had hard time sleeping because thinking of the downvotes... Linux supports any architecture, that doesn't matter. I'm asking if anyone has tried or knows about this: Is there a bootlock? What's the shipped BIOS? Question is legit, this is M$ we're talking about, not precisely known for its openness. And just for asking, I'm being downvoted and called "antagonistic". You fanbois are just hilarious. It's…

Microsoft has a policy of no boot lock on x86, boot lock on arm. They are only anti-choice in certain situations.

I'm astounded that you can take an issue where microsoft has done something you agree with and turn it into a persecution complex.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#327

Post by mikeash »

Corrado wrote: post #324
gress wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll concede that the iPad line is weird, but I just don't agree with the pattern you are trying to make for the rest of them. I don't agree that 2 sizes of iPhone is any different from 2 sizes of laptop or two sizes of iPad.

Actually, there are 4 sizes of iPhone currently on the Apple store; 6, 6+, 5s, 5c. That gives you 3 different screen sizes and quite a few color and storage options. I find the current state of the Apple catalog to be depressingly complex and look forward to when there are 4 models to choose from; Business/Consumer, Portable/Desktop. But that's just me.

I think the problem is non-orthogonality. So many choices are bundled together, and you have to decide everything at once, instead of taking it one at a time. For a MacBook, back when the line was really simple, you'd pick a size, then pick a speed, pick storage, etc., more or less independently. All you had to control for at each stage was cost. iPhones were even simpler: pick a storage size and you're done.

Now, things are bundled together. If you choose an iPhone screen size first, you're implicitly choosing camera quality, materials, speed, fingerprint recognition, and such things all at once. If you like a plastic case (some people do!) then 4" is your only choice. If you want the best camera, you have to get a 5.5" phone even if that doesn't fit in your pocket. If you're buying a MacBook, you have to optimize ports, weight, speed, fancy new haptic trackpad, and other such things all at once.

Compared to other manufacturers, Apple is still doing pretty well here. But it's still considerably worse than it used to be.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#328

Post by mikeash »

npunt wrote: post #296
stinkytaco wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Apple's fallen of the wagon on this one, however. Look at the iPad line. From what I can tell there are at least 6 different models and all of those are available in different storage capacities and with different connectivity options. Additionally, there are 3 different iPhone models. If you're a consumer walking into Best Buy for an iPad, I can definitely see you getting a raw deal if you don't already…

I respectfully disagree, there's only two raw deals I see with your example: buying a 16GB model, and going to Best Buy. There were always 6 SKUs for any given region (3 size options and 2 connectivity), and now there are 3 colors, and the iPad Mini form factor. That's a lot when you add it all up analytically, but that's not how consumers experience it -- they're not presented with 36 different iPads and asked to fi…

You seem to be skipping over the part where the buyer chooses between the iPad Air and the iPad Air 2 (if they pick the big size) or between the iPad mini, iPad mini 2, or iPad mini 3 (if they pick the small size). That is the big problem in my eyes at the moment. Cellular radio, whatever, obvious choice for most. Colors, that's an easy customization, just pick what you like. But how do you pick between all those different models? The really puzzling one is the iPad mini 3 and iPad mini 2. Why do they both exist? Is the difference truly just $100 in price and a fingerprint sensor? That's madness!

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#329

Post by mikeash »

Corrado wrote: post #323
freehunter wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then again, try buying accessories for the Kindle Not-Fire. First off, you have to figure out how to search for Kindle without Fire results coming up. Then you have to try to figure out which generation you have, when Amazon themselves don't tell you that anywhere.

Maybe hardware manufacturers should do like car companies do and use a model year. "Yea, I have a MacBook Pro 2015 but its about the same as my Surface Pro 2017".

That's actually how Apple does it. For example, the official names of the various Mac Pro models are "Mac Pro (Late 2013)," "Mac Pro (Mid 2012)," etc. It's a bit confusing because they don't show the year part prominently, so you have to do some legwork to figure out what you're buying or what you already have, but it works out OK.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#330

Post by gress »

mikeash wrote: post #327
Corrado wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there are 4 sizes of iPhone currently on the Apple store; 6, 6+, 5s, 5c. That gives you 3 different screen sizes and quite a few color and storage options. I find the current state of the Apple catalog to be depressingly complex and look forward to when there are 4 models to choose from; Business/Consumer, Portable/Desktop. But that's just me.

I think the problem is non-orthogonality. So many choices are bundled together, and you have to decide everything at once, instead of taking it one at a time. For a MacBook, back when the line was really simple, you'd pick a size, then pick a speed, pick storage, etc., more or less independently. All you had to control for at each stage was cost. iPhones were even simpler: pick a storage size and you're done. Now, th…

This is technically true, but I think you're exaggerating the effects of some of the choices vs others.

For example, the difference in camera quality between the iPhone 6 and 6+ is minimal. Yes, if you are obsessed with 'the best' camera quality but want it in a smaller phone, you are faced with a compromise, but for almost everyone the phone size massively overshadows the trivial difference in camera. So people will pick the size they want and those who pick the bigger device will have the minor bonus of a marginally better camera.

Almost nobody obsesses over the full matrix of possible tradeoff the way you are implying. They just choose from what is available based on what is most important to them. The iPhone lineup is easy to select from based on this approach.

Yes, they could make things more orthogonal by say, not having the plastic phone, but it seems to me that this would have almost no effect of the ease of choosing, while just serving fewer customers.

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