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Coin

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Re: Coin

#321

Post by Nursie »

freshhawk wrote: post #302
Nursie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

As I Canadian I also read this with a little sadness. It's something I have always wanted ... but now someone made it just as we're close to finishing the transition to EMV. It can actually be a bit tricky to use my company card to buy lunch at restaurants sometimes because "there's no chip". Their FAQ says future versions of Coin will support EMV, but I'm not familiar enough with the hardware to know how difficult t…

The EMV transaction process has "application selection" as one of its early stages, and some cards do contain multiple applications. However AFAICT this is never across banks or across schemes. So you may get a card that has (say) a Mastercard application on it for domestic use and another for foreign use.

In theory, you could slam mastercard, visa, amex, credit, debit, whatever else you want, all on the one chip. Depending on the exact card and terminal implementation a transaction would either use the default application or get an on-screen display asking you which you would like to use. But you'd have to get the banks to load the app on there as there are sensitive keys involved.

That's not exactly the same as Coin - you couldn't pre-select which card to use in which situation, and you couldn't load them yourself. I suppose in theory you could have multiple EMV chips on a card like Coin and have a circuit-switching arrangement of some sort. There would need to be a way to embed them there and that would put a limit on things...

--edit-- about the stupid loyalty card things - in Australia I noticed most of them had started working on barcodes, and people had smartphone apps that gave them a menu and displayed the right code, pretty cool.

Re: Coin

#322

Post by toomuchtodo »

liyanchang wrote: post #283
busterarm wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want chip and pin cards SO BADLY here. Mainly because it would make my trips to Europe a lot easier, where many systems I've encountered won't work on some non-EMV cards.

Chase Sapphire Preferred offers EMV cards[0] and no foriegn exchange charges. Makes a good travel card. [0] Technically: chip-and-signature rather then chip-and-pin. Also, you have to ask for the EMV but they're super friendly about it.

I've found my chip and signature Amex Platinum Card to be just as useless in Europe as my old magstrip-only card.

Re: Coin

#323

Post by potatolicious »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #291
pbreit wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imprint was just an example. You can take a picture of it, view the CVC, etc. No one imprints anymore.

How can you prove the pictures is the card and not just 'shopped though. With an imprint there's a larger barrier, creating an embossed card, doable but a barrier nonetheless. With credit cards, unless there was a unique image on it then you'd often be able to guess from the number what the other card details should look like.

I'd argue that shopping a believable picture of a credit card that stands up to scrutiny is a higher barrier than the imprint - which really just involves some movable letters and carbon paper...

Re: Coin

#324

Post by nlh »

abalone wrote: post #245
nlh wrote: post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

I think you are mistaken about card rules. To protect themselves against chargebacks the merchant needs to keep a copy of the signed credit card slip, not a physical imprint of the card. That's actually better than a physical imprint (which is impossible on many cards these days anyway) because a matching signature can prove who used the card, not just that the card was physically present.

Worth looking into! Thanks. I know there's been at several cases where we specifically lost because of lack of imprint, but another thing I've learned in dealing with the credit card issuers is that, despite what we hope, there is MASSIVE inconsistency in the application of chargeback rules. Sometimes you'll lose a chargeback because the issuer just wants to be nice their cardholder (Amex is guilty of this) and they'll literally make up reasons for the loss.

We actually had Amex _negotiate_ with us over a chargeback once. I had no idea this was even possible -- they actually said "So how about we'll agree to split the loss. We'll cover half, you guys cover half." I had no idea that was even an option.

Re: Coin

#325

Post by dsl »

taude wrote: post #250
kevincrane wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what do you do that requires 16 cards on a regular basis? At some point, the limiting factor of how many cards you can carry becomes your pant pocket (or purse). My jeans wouldn't stand more than a few cards and far less than 30.

Here's my list: * Costco membership card * three loyalty shopper cards for my common stores (I need the physical card because none of the apps I've tried using that scan the bar codes work with store scanners) * a card to pay for my train rides, * bank debit card for ATMS * business credit card * personal credit card * medical insurance card (this one would be easy to just use a photo of) * AAA card (would be easy to…

This isn't going to work for your zipcar card, access card for your office, and possibly your bus pass.

Re: Coin

#326

Post by joncfoo »

avree wrote: post #109
ohazi wrote: post #100

With any luck, this will piss off the banks/CC companies enough to finally roll out chip+pin in the US.

Uh, why would we want chip+pin in the US?

It enables the following:

  - less liability for the merchant
    - either the transaction was explicitly approved or wasn't
  - sense of security for the user
    - card never leaves you
    - if you ever lose the card it doesn't matter
    - there's no reason to sign anymore (less opportunities for fraud)
I can't quite put my finger on it but it does change the dynamic between wait staff & consumers when you're out dining - it just makes things simpler & you have to wait a lot less when you decide to leave.

Re: Coin

#327

Post by kalleboo »

seszett wrote: post #255
pidg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand chip+pin is still a novelty in the US. Back in 2009, I was (apparently) the first person to use the chip+pin machine in one of the biggest bookstores in Toronto - the cashiers got excited and all gathered round to watch. It was a little bit bizarre.

For a view on another part of the world, just in 2012 in Japan it seemed like about nobody knew about these. Some stores didn't even know they had a pad for entering a PIN, and some didn't know what was the "enter secret code" instruction. I only understood that after a week and maybe ten or so places had told me "your card doesn't work", when some hotel tenant called her daughter to translate things, and she knew ab…

That's odd, how far out in the sticks were you? I've used my european chip card extensively in Japan for the past 3 years with no confusion whatsoever, and most places that take cards have a chip reader that they use immediately. Nobody has ever said my card doesn't work. There's actually way more confusion when I pull out a WAON card or something.

It's been more of a problem in places in Thailand and Singapore where they're not really equipped to hand over the card terminal and sometimes I have to go behind the desk or something.

Re: Coin

#329

Post by busterarm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #319
busterarm wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want chip and pin cards SO BADLY here. Mainly because it would make my trips to Europe a lot easier, where many systems I've encountered won't work on some non-EMV cards.

http://creditcardforum.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-cards-us...

I have an AmEx but not Platinum. It's not worth the extra fees to me.

If they get some sense and implement this on their lower-end charge cards, I'd be a pig in shit. I try to have this be the only card I use.

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