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Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

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321–330 of 479 posts

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#321

I was actually expecting the HN crowd to hate Java more than PHP. But it was close! 143 dislikes for COBOL? Call me cynical but I'll bet most of those votes came from people who have never been near a green screen.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure its the same with C++.

C++ faults are blown out of proportion by sensationalists, most of whom have never touched C++ code in their lives.

Out of C++, Java, Javascript, and PHP, easily four of the most used languages in the poll, only a single one has positive votes. And it has just as many faults as the other three.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

realise that ORMs are inherently stupid. That's quite the claim... Care to expand on why you think ORMs are "inherently stupid"?

Because you can't cleanly map objects to sets nor sets to objects. Sure, if you want to pretend an RDBMS is an object store you certainly can, but you'll be forced to have an incredibly stupid schema, and will miss out on much of the benefits of a good RDBMS. Turning a powerful SQL database engine into an object storage emulator is just sad. If your underlying data suits objects better than sets, consider using somet…

Unfortunately I didn't have time to read these articles in depth, nor do I have the time to write a detailed answer now - sorry. But it seems to me that the situation has changed since these articles were written, at least concerning the tools I know best (which are .NET and C#).

We now have built-in support for data (sets) manipulation in C# and Entity Framework makes things like db.Customers.First().FirstName with syntax support totally real. Many of the premises these essays seem to be based on (like "the languages in play lack any real specialized data structures") are just not true anymore.

Also, I would like to know more about why using an ORM like EF would force me to "have an incredibly stupid schema".

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#324

im curious what people dislike about groovy. I haven't tried it much but it seemed like a decent language and good alternative to java. I wasn't thrilled with the availability of frameworks for it, but that was about the only complaint I really had.

I'm also surprised at the dislike for Groovy. When I looked at it, it seemed to be roughly on par with Python or Ruby, with some nice features unique to Groovy.

Of course, there's the limitation that it only runs on the JVM. Maybe it suffers from the following thought process: many people who want a rapid development language and would be interested in Python or Ruby aren't interested in running on the JVM, and people who are already in the Java ecosystem are too biased in favor of static typing to give Groovy its fair shake?

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#325
post #83

seeing how there was quite a bit of CFML bashing going on yesterday, i doesn't surprise me that ColdFusion has that many dislike votes. BTW, its CFML, NOT ColdFusion. ColdFusion is a product, CFML is the language. it would be the same as having JRuby on the list instead of Ruby. if you're going to have a poll on programming languages, then at least label said languages correctly.

> its CFML, NOT ColdFusion And this isn't some academic or semantic point -- the best implementation of CFML isn't even ColdFusion.

Yeah there were two Railo projects yesterday on the front page of HN: DistroKid and SQL Fiddle.

Here's a challenge for you CF haters: Download and use Railo (GetRailo.com) for your next side project. You just might be surprised.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#326
post #247

Damn Java has a 1:2 like to dislike ratio. Why do people hate on Java? I'm totally biased because it is the first language I learned and I use it daily but seriously, why the dislike? It is powerful, portable, stable, hard to shoot yourself in the foot with, and tons of standard libraries. Also the libraries (standard or 3rd party) rarely violate the rule of least surprise. I can nearly always guess the right way to…

For me, it's the sheer verbosity. You can't just say "import module; module.function()" without having more boilerplate than code.

Also, "hard to shoot yourself in the foot" can sometimes mean "hard to do mystical stuff when you really, really want to". 99% of the time, regardless of language, you should be writing clear, idiomatic code. 1% of the time, though, you want some voodoo (that you can encapsulate so that no one else really has to understand it), and when that time comes you want the language to get out of the way.

For example, almost no one needs to write metaclasses in Python. It's just not something most people will ever have a nonzero desire or need to do. But, suppose you're writing an ORM or a templating system or something else were it might be darn handy to create a lot of methods at instantiation time. In those cases, it's incredibly convenient to be able to do the magical stuff at all. You only have to get it right once, then all the downstream users can benefit from a much simplified and cleaner experience.

I don't want to shoot my foot. Sometimes, though, I might want to shoot a snake crawling across it. I prefer to use languages that keep things safe in general but allow shoot-footing when you really, really need it.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#327
post #193
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought exactly. Actually I was think - "geez, these people are such hipsters". Everyone loves the "cool" languages - Scala, Haskell, etc. But of course the lame languages suck (Java). Though I was pleasantly surprised to see the love for C#. It's a very nice language and you'd think being from MS it wouldn't be "cool".

And who can't love VB for getting shit done (at least back in the day). Though I can see if we are just focusing on the language.

If VB6/VBA weren't coupled to the god awful IDEs and completely unversionable/patchable binary formats of their applications, it would be a pretty decent programming language.

It's persisted - absurdly - in spite of those crippling issues.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#328
post #186
post #6

And the award of least significant poll of the week goes to... Seriously, you won't get anything meaningful out of this, people will vote for the language they like and then bash the usual suspects (PHP, actionscript, C++,...). Also they will browse the first 20 entries or so and then get bored and skip to the end. I'm sure the people who "dislike cobol" (7 people at the moment) have intimate knowledge of the languag…

My thought exactly. Actually I was think - "geez, these people are such hipsters". Everyone loves the "cool" languages - Scala, Haskell, etc. But of course the lame languages suck (Java). Though I was pleasantly surprised to see the love for C#. It's a very nice language and you'd think being from MS it wouldn't be "cool".

But perhaps the cool languages of today are cool precisely because they offer real advantages. Maybe they're advantageous only in our unique historical moment. That has yet to be seen. If their popularity fades over time, that won't mean they were simply hipster fads. It could just as easily mean they met significant needs at one point in time, but the needs changed, or we developed better tools that met those same needs.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#329
post #193
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought exactly. Actually I was think - "geez, these people are such hipsters". Everyone loves the "cool" languages - Scala, Haskell, etc. But of course the lame languages suck (Java). Though I was pleasantly surprised to see the love for C#. It's a very nice language and you'd think being from MS it wouldn't be "cool".

And who can't love VB for getting shit done (at least back in the day). Though I can see if we are just focusing on the language.

My biggest problem with VB was inconsistency. There were multiple flavors floating around with subtle incompatibilities, so you couldn't always reuse code without modifications. Also, it did some weird things with types. Like error messages along the lines of "Type mismatch: expected string, but got string."
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