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U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#321

Post by sneak »

peripetylabs wrote: post #192

The Chinese authorities will hold him until they feel he has given them all he knows, then quickly extradite him to the US. At that point he will probably try to get to Europe. If he makes it, his appeal to those governments on humanitarian grounds may be weakened by the fact the first country he picked practices capital punishment far more than the US (more than every other country in the world combined): http://www…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-n...

Snowden: "Leaving the US was an incredible risk, as NSA employees must declare their foreign travel 30 days in advance and are monitored. There was a distinct possibility I would be interdicted en route, so I had to travel with no advance booking to a country with the cultural and legal framework to allow me to work without being immediately detained. Hong Kong provided that. Iceland could be pushed harder, quicker, before the public could have a chance to make their feelings known, and I would not put that past the current US administration."

He was not charged yet when he went to HK.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#322

Post by InclinedPlane »

fusiongyro wrote: post #288
evilduck wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any whitehouse.gov petition ever led to actual action being taken?

It takes ten seconds and costs nothing. I honestly don't understand the argument against it. It may be no better than nothing, but it can hardly be worse.

It does cost something. It makes you feel like you've done something, so you perhaps have less motivation to do something more substantive such as writing your congressional reps and senators.

Which is a far more meaningful act than signing these useless online petitions.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#323

Post by timdev2 »

[deleted] wrote: post #318
timdev2 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> hey, non-US citizen here. > That is YOUR hard earned tax money at work AGAINST YOU. The guy you're yelling at is a non-US citizen who's point is "for the love of god, you ignorant american, how did you not see what's been happening until now?" It's completely stupid that this is even a topic on HN, but the worst part is the amount of mindless shitposting going on. I mean, you just replied to a person who starts of…

[deleted]

This is a threaded discussion platform. If you're going to make an impassioned "me too" sort of reply, it's best to respect the context and make that clear.

After all, this is the internet.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#324

Post by espadrine »

mverwijs wrote: post #307
DanielRibeiro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.

I'm surprised that I, as a non-US citizen living in the Netherlands, could sign that.

Watching Hulu.com videos should clearly be US-only, while a petition website targeted at US citizen is for everybody!

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#325

Post by cLeEOGPw »

rdl wrote: post #27
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I actually don't think charging him is inherently bad. If he in fact took 4 government property laptops with him, that's a crime, at the very least. Ideally, pre-trial investigation and a trial would be fair way to find facts. It's entirely possible minor crimes (violating classified NDA, taking laptops, etc.) would be non-conviction based on other information, but on its face, I don't really have a problem with init…

But there is no legal way to show people evidence of such things. It is only made to be a crime to protect government, not people.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#326

Post by Andrew_Quentin »

brown9-2 wrote: post #102
wavesounds wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if your a whistleblower. What if instead of a domestic spying program he leaked a secret program by his bosses to round up every red haired and freckled person and put them in a concentration camp? Then would you still have to charge him with a crime for revealing a 'secret' program before he could be pardoned and treated as a hero? Of course not, thats ridiculous and so is this.

But he didn't do that. Are you a whistleblower if what you reveal isn't illegal?

Who said it is legal or illegal?

If some law contravenes the constitution that law is not legal therefore whatever the law says should not be done is legal.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#327

Post by Andrew_Quentin »

eli wrote: post #58
vehementi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of hard to be a whistleblower without breaking some sort of secrecy law.

There actually are whistleblower protections he could have taken advantage of... but it would have meant working within the system (for example, taking his concerns to Congress or the NSA's Inspector General rather than a reporter) and it only applies if he uncovered fraud or illegal activity. AFAIK there isn't any proof that he uncovered anything illegal .

Arguably the whole programme is illegal.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#328

Post by Andrew_Quentin »

anigbrowl wrote: post #215
mtgx wrote: post #178

Greenwald: "The Obama DOJ just charged its 7th leaker under "espionage" statute - total for ALL prior presidents: 3" https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/348202448437002240

A predictably meaningless 'statistic' from Greenwald. For context, how many other leakers were there in the past who were not charged?

Since 1917? I'd think quite a few

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#330

Post by Andrew_Quentin »

Jayschwa wrote: post #179
jsmeaton wrote: post #154

Let's assume this charge is legal and correct for a moment. Why aren't the newspapers (guardian and the post?) and their writers/editors also being charged? Why aren't the newspapers having their paypal and all their bank accounts frozen? We live in very scary times as far as I'm concerned. The US is prosecuting its own citizens for standing up and saying "what you're doing to the rest of the world is not OK". But if…

Snowden presumably signed some contract or took some oath when he got his clearance, which he violated when he leaked info. The newspapers never made such promises. I don't think Snowden should be punished, but I can see why there might be a distinction with respect to prosecution.

A private contract can not make you guilty of criminal offences.
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