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Stop Generalizing About Europe

jonasbentzen.com

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Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#321

Post by matiaslaporte »

edj wrote: post #128
crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. Likewise, most people across the world seem to use "American" and "U.S. citizen" interchangeably, even though Canada and Brazil, for example, are in the Americas, making Canadians and Brazilians American , as well.

This comment here is quite important, as Martin Varsavsky isn't "American" in the way most of the people use it, but from Argentine.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#322

Post by rickmb »

JPKab wrote: post #314
crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

"All of this wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that I see these kinds of generalizations all the time. It's not uncommon for Americans who've briefly visited one or two countries in Europe to say, "In Europe they..." or "Europeans are...". This makes me cringe every time, because it is the equivalent of a European person visiting a city in Mexico and going, "In North America they..." or "North Ame…

By describing the cultural differences within the US as "vastly different", you are basically just confirming the idea of Americans not understanding the depth of cultural diversity in Europe.

I'm very well aware of the significant differences between the Deep South and the West Coast etc, but those differences pale in comparison to the vast centuries old cultural differences you can find in Europe even between towns only a few dozen miles apart. Hell, the differences inside the US barely compare to regional differences within small European countries.

This is not a matter of ignorance. Even in well educated and well traveled Americans seem to be unable to really comprehend the depth of cultural differences outside the US.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#323

Post by arethuza »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #319
arethuza wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unaware that the Isle of Wight had any unusual political status....

You are indeed correct; it's just a county of England.

That's a shame, I was hoping for some amusement along the lines of Berwick upon Tweed still fighting the Crimean War with the Russian Empire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick-upon-Tweed#Relations_wi...

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#324

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Typhon wrote: post #318
JPKab wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All of this wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that I see these kinds of generalizations all the time. It's not uncommon for Americans who've briefly visited one or two countries in Europe to say, "In Europe they..." or "Europeans are...". This makes me cringe every time, because it is the equivalent of a European person visiting a city in Mexico and going, "In North America they..." or "North Ame…

as if the U.S. is a homogenous culture Compared to Europe, it certainly is. From a merely linguistic viewpoint, in North America there's English and Spanish (Ok, and native american languages, but they're really not much spoken). In Western and Northern Europe, there's French, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Finnish. The thing is, identity is a matter of contrast. See this : http://squid314.li…

Not to mention the hundreds of local accents, sub-languages and even manners of speech and expression. Of course, that's also applicable to the US on a somewhat larger scale.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#325

Post by neumann_alfred »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #290
neumann_alfred wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say all Americans are that way, I just said some (rather loud, rather constant) Americans generalize themselves; while I don't quite get that vibe from Europe. Movies, presidential speeches, whatnot... it's really not just some nationalists, you export that a lot. That doesn't say anything about those who have no use for that stuff and see through it, I'm just claiming you have a lot of people who don't. I c…

As an American currently living outside America, I would like to emphatically state that America's cultural exports almost always represent Eagleland (check TVTropes... or don't waste half your Friday!) rather than the actual United States. The problem is that it has taken a convergence of demographic tip-over into a mostly urbanized population and a major political/economic/cultural crisis to stop large portions of…

I never claimed that it's representative, that was a strawman from reply #1. I just said compared to Europe, Americans seem to do a lot of the stereotyping themselves -- and that also means "American media" compared to "European media". I stand by that, and you just basically confirmed it.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#326

Post by lispm »

pointernil wrote: post #281
lispm wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany does not want anything more than create new successful start-ups. We are just not focused on 'Internet start-ups'. There is a huge infrastructure in Germany to support it. > negative sentiment towards 'entrepreneurship' as it is connected with "making money fast" on the internet and/or "just" doing things to make money. In Germany? I have never heard that. It is just that we don't focus on 'Internet startups'…

Are you sure you really mean start-ups as in: http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html (in short: companies bound to grow really fast and bound to generate extraordinary profits fast)

http://www.manager-magazin.de/magazin/artikel/0,2828,838699,...

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#327

Post by lispm »

PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #301
lispm wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that you say that. Just a ten kilometers from where I live is this: http://www.haelssen-lyon.de/index.php?id=22&L=1 Also this: http://www.teaandcoffee.net/1107/tea.htm > The Port of Hamburg is Europe’s tea capital number and handles more than 70% of all German tea imports, as well as some 50% of the European-wide traded teas. Germany has been for centuries been heavy into international trade. The city where I l…

Agreed. Germany may import more into the EU market than anybody else including UK. That's not my point. My point is that from the British perspective it is much better to open borders and trade with India, Canada, Australia, US, then to try doing the same with the EU. They closed themselves in the EU-block distancing from emerging markets in Asia and from the Commonwealth while Indians for that example are literally…

Germany is in the EU and trades very successful with China, India, Brasil, Russia, US, ...

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/03/bric1-germanys-new-bedfe...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/23/us-germany-china-i...

If the UK can't do that, it is not due to the EU, but because of local incompetence. Germany has high growth rates in trade with the countries and a huge export surplus (even with China).

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#328

Post by rmc »

PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #310
rmc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes perfect sense. You have a pan-european state that deals with the big stuff (like human rights) and national ethnic groups for the little stuff. There has been a trend towards large countries breaking up into national/ethnic groupings for almost 200 years in Europe. The phrase "Balkanization" dates, not from the recent Yugoslav wars, but initially from 200 years ago when the Ottoman's were breaking up…

No. This a feudal phenomenon right from the Middle Ages. The Papal Rome (EU) that deals with the big stuff and regionalization. That's why many historians and philosophers claim that times we are living in will be referred to as neo-feudal in the future: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism That's backwardation. Similarly, in the Middle Ages there was no concept of nation states. Sounds like EU agenda, doesn't…

And yet, christian groups think the EU is a secular force trying to destroy the christian values they believe in with things like allowing women to work, allowing gays to exist, etc.

So who's right? Or are you both extremists?

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#329

Post by mipapage »

rickmb wrote: post #322
JPKab wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All of this wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that I see these kinds of generalizations all the time. It's not uncommon for Americans who've briefly visited one or two countries in Europe to say, "In Europe they..." or "Europeans are...". This makes me cringe every time, because it is the equivalent of a European person visiting a city in Mexico and going, "In North America they..." or "North Ame…

By describing the cultural differences within the US as "vastly different", you are basically just confirming the idea of Americans not understanding the depth of cultural diversity in Europe. I'm very well aware of the significant differences between the Deep South and the West Coast etc, but those differences pale in comparison to the vast centuries old cultural differences you can find in Europe even between towns…

To support the "cultural differences you can find in Europe even between towns only a few dozen miles apart"... Words, languages and even food can be different going from one village to the next here in Spain.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#330

Post by cristianpascu »

klibertp wrote: post #254
cristianpascu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Romania, so I can tell what we consider West: Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, UK, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium. If one goes to one of these countries, one feels like going west. Otherwise, it's less and less. So when Americans speak about Europe, it's safe to assume that they might refer to these countries. Rock bands will always have a hard time to tell Bucharest…

Err.. that's curious, you mean that going almost exactly NORTH (Sweden, Finland) is considered going west? I'm not sure if I like this, even if only because it's so obviously, factually wrong :)

It's not geographical west but cultural/economical/mental west. It's about the perception, not the location.

Greece, south of Romania, could also be included in the western countries.

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