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Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

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Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#321

Post by tlear »

dredmorbius wrote: post #108
jimbokun wrote: post #101

Anyone swim? My kids joined a swim team, so I decided to try it as a work out (already had a membership at a gym with a pool). I never swam as a workout before. I could barely do 500 meters when I started, switching up strokes (mostly free with my sad approximations of breast, fly, and back), having to stop and catch my breath often. Now I'm at 600, have to stop much less often, and see some upper body development. I…

Please read the article. I've swum for several decades. It's a good form of cardiovascular training. It's also very much a skill sport that's difficult to pick up in later life -- your entire workout distance is a small portion of my warm-up routine (workouts run 3k - 6k meters). The specific part of the article you want to pay attention to is the training goal matrix ( http://archive.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploa…

Many long distance runner do not lift at all, but there are so many schools of long distance running what actually works still seems like vodoo (at the top level).

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#323

Post by tomjen3 »

henrikschroder wrote: post #216
tomjen3 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real CTA would be for them to find a way to make guys like me _want_ to exercise (or find a way to get the benefits of exercise without exercise, which would be the real solution).

Gamify it! Make an app! (Oh, right, there's already a ton of those...)

Yeah, that is clearly a non-solution.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#324

Post by Swannie »

dredmorbius wrote: post #297
Swannie wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception. I take my office gym for example - I don't go there, but a colleague does. We've discussed fitness over lunch a few times, he gets it. Guess what the trainers in the gym think about him? They personally do his workouts. They take his advice. They are happy for him to go up to other gym users and coach them, because he k…

And among the bright points of the original essay: it details the perverse incentives which lead to specifically this problem. Quite the market failure IMO.

Yes, trainers in a "Globo" gym are incentivized on membership sales, repeat personal sessions, and importantly: running classes. The more classes they are "trained" to run, the more valuable they are as an employee.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#325

Post by Swannie »

corresation wrote: post #238
Swannie wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception. I take my office gym for example - I don't go there, but a colleague does. We've discussed fitness over lunch a few times, he gets it. Guess what the trainers in the gym think about him? They personally do his workouts. They take his advice. They are happy for him to go up to other gym users and coach them, because he k…

They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there? While your story is both anecdotal and second-hand, what you describe doesn't sound that remarkable: Information is largely free now. It is entirely possible if not probable that someone with an interest in a niche will learn more about specific subject matter than generalists who have to know about the whole field.

This is one anecdote of many.

The thing is, if you work in a gym daily, I'd expect you to have intermediate knowledge of a lot of things: cycling, running, rowing, free weights, warm up exercises, safe stretching techniques, nutrition. The ability to perform assessments of form, fitness, give advice about contra-indicated exercises based on disclosed medical histories, and more.

It's when I see people completely incorrectly adjust their gym bikes, start stretching before they touch any equipment, etc. because their "trainer" told them. When I personally get "corrected" on my "bad" form by a gym trainer (at the time I was attending twice weekly sessions with a qualified amateur lifting trainer instructor), telling me to do the exact opposite of what I was taught. When I see trainers get on the rowing machine and demonstrate poor technique that could lead to repetitive strain back injuries... the list goes on, and it's depressing.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#326

Post by dhimes »

eru wrote: post #311
dhimes wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

very specific definitions Ha! Hard to argue with that because you pluralized 'definition.' But what I mean is, (1) If I'm doing a chest exercise, for example, with 270+ pounds, and I fail on a machine, I can get out of it. With free weights, I need a spotter and it's much trickier. (2) Perhaps more important: If I'm doing heavy legs (450 lbs, for example), with free weights I have to load a lot of weight on my back f…

Yes. It's just that being hit by the weights is actually not the failure mode you should be worried about most. It's having the wrong stress on your joints for longer times. It's a bit like barefoot running vs shod running. Shoes protect your feet, so they are ostensibly safer. But they also make it easy to have bad technique and wreck your joints, especially your knees. > (1) If I'm doing a chest exercise, for examp…

* It's having the wrong stress on your joints for longer times*

Yes, that was my point #2.

The only real need for a spotter is for barbell bench pressing

I was specifically thinking about the bench-press-like machine press, but also true for the dumbell fly exercise.

I do the free-weight lifts, just not with heavy weight. When I want to seriously stress my muscles I go to the machines.

I just started with the bosu-ball stuff last year and I have to say I like it. It hits stabilizers the squat doesn't begin to touch. I'm a sailor- just got back from a week-long bareboat charter in pretty choppy seas, and I really like the results. I'm not sure I can articulate it though- while it helped my balance, it also helped my strength while maintaining balance. For example, the task of picking up a mooring ball with the boat bouncing seemed easier. But that may just be a distorted perception.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#327

Post by matwood »

foobarqux wrote: post #287
matwood wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. When I was at my strongest (max DL was 525lbs, sadly I'm only in the 400s now) I spent only that in the gym. Lifting weights is both a physical and mental exercise that most people can only continue for ~45 minutes. Anymore than that and it's often useless work because it's not at a level that's still challenging. Powerlifting tends to make for longer workouts because I would take more rest between sets. When I…

What are your squat/bench/press PRs?

Bench was 325# Squat was 380# Weight at the time was 205#

My goals were 500/400/300 DL/Squat/Bench, but I could never get the squat. My legs are long and I do true ATG squats. My quarter and half squats were into the 400s though. My other problem with squats was that I tore my ACL wakeboarding and have had it surgically repaired. It feels great now, but the timing set me back on my squatting.

Benching in the 300s hurt my elbows too much so once I hit that number I backed way off. I rarely bench over 250# during a workout now.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#328

Post by debacle »

dredmorbius wrote: post #300
debacle wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swimming is great, in many ways - great cardio, super low impact, endurance strength, high base metabolism, and puts you in line to have a good physique. The biggest problem is that a standard swim is 2-3 hours, whereas I can complete all my lifts in 45 minutes. I used to swim ~3 miles a day. That was before I had two kids, a house, etc.

For whatever reason, swimming picked up a pattern of really long-distance training routines, peaking in the 1970s and early 1980s with 10-12,000 yard/meter days (two workouts). Cycling had similar trends for a while as well. Both are activities in which the athlete is supported (swimmers by water, cyclists by the bike) and friction is minimal (rowing tends to get painful after an hour or two), allowing hours-long tra…

When swimming competitively, 2-3 miles is the norm, and 4-5 would be for longer practices (usually Saturday mornings or the Friday before a break)

You don't just get in the pool and lap swim. We would do laps on 1 minute intervals (sprint the lap, rest for 30 seconds, repeat), 100s on 90 or 120 second intervals, 200s on 4 or 5 minute intervals, etc. You've also got isolation exercises ( pull/kick/swims, 25s off the block, half-pool 25s with the turn, etc)

But during a 3 hour practice, you still wind up swimming a few miles. Even doing an average of 25 yards a minute (a snail's pace), you're looking at 2.5 miles.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#329

Post by thisone »

usaar333 wrote: post #286
subsection1h wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is overlooking one of the great benefits of elliptical trainers. I think the greatest benefit of ellipticals is the opportunity to read while exercising. I have a computer and monitor dedicated to my elliptical with the monitor raised to eye level.

In all fairness, the parent is talking about cardio workouts. If you are able to read while on an elliptical, you may be getting exercise, but certainly not in the "high end of the aerobic zone".

That's highly individual. You may be unable to read while going hells bells on an eliptical (or running on a treadmill), other people can.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011)

#330

Post by dredmorbius »

debacle wrote: post #328
dredmorbius wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, swimming picked up a pattern of really long-distance training routines, peaking in the 1970s and early 1980s with 10-12,000 yard/meter days (two workouts). Cycling had similar trends for a while as well. Both are activities in which the athlete is supported (swimmers by water, cyclists by the bike) and friction is minimal (rowing tends to get painful after an hour or two), allowing hours-long tra…

When swimming competitively, 2-3 miles is the norm, and 4-5 would be for longer practices (usually Saturday mornings or the Friday before a break) You don't just get in the pool and lap swim. We would do laps on 1 minute intervals (sprint the lap, rest for 30 seconds, repeat), 100s on 90 or 120 second intervals, 200s on 4 or 5 minute intervals, etc. You've also got isolation exercises ( pull/kick/swims, 25s off the b…

Trust me, I'm all too familiar with swim workouts.
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