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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

bbc.com

321–330 of 696 posts

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#321
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are looking at the acceleration but without looking at the initial state. A more fair metric would be Co2 emissions/person and I’m getting USA 14.3 t, China 8.8 t, EU 5.5 t, India 2.2 t

The only relevant metric is ppm in the atmosphere. Every single other, especially per capita ones are distructioo

That is both completely right and completely wrong.

It is right because all the planet cares about is the amount in the atmosphere.

It is completely wrong because whatever total amount X of CO2 emissions we decide we need to limit humanity to, we have to somehow allocate that CO2 emission budget to people.

Unless you can make a good case that some people have some sort of natural or divine right to a bigger share than others the only way to do it is for every person to have the same share. (Maybe on top of that there can be some system of trading, so that people whose emissions go toward things that the world finds more useful can trade for a bigger share, but it would still have to start from everyone is equal).

Since it is countries that would be the ones actually enforcing whatever the limit is, the country effectively ends up as the entity in charge of the shares of all its population, making the allocation at the country level equal on a per capita basis between countries.

Another way to see that anything other than per capita is nonsense is that anything else would allow groups of people to manipulate their allocation by splitting the country into multiple countries or merging multiple countries into one.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#322
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. We are actually at huge risk. "Western Civilization" rose out of our stable European climate and that is over now. However, we need a global consensus for geoengineering. That's just how that works... the Jet Stream. Meanwhile one country believes that global warming is a benefit, aka Russia. They currently appear to have control of the West.. so what in the actual f? For a far more dire diatribe: h…

>However, we need a global consensus for geoengineering. Why? Does china or the us need a consensus before taking existential risks like making ai? Or detonating a nuke that had a tiny chance of setting the atmosphere on fire? Or attacking random countries with almost no rationale or plan? This kind of thinking is why the EU is screwed. No other major power cares that much because they aren't at the same level of ris…

There’s something odd about the concentration of true believers in ai xrisk and climate change catastrophism. They are both technopessimist in a way that is seen as progressive. Stopping progress in AI would make people’s lives immeasurably worse, while stopping fossil fuel consumption would kill billions of people. But it seems like a particular kind of risk aversion that is blind to upside.

I’m curious why this calculus makes sense to you?

I’ve been friends with eco-activists who are very against anthropocentric ideology. Their perspective was that the deaths of billions of people was worth it. But this brand of conservatism is one that I’d really like to understand better

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#323
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I hear from my MAGA relatives: Why should I care if the ocean rises a few inches? I don't own beachfront property in Florida.

Your relatives clearly aren't MAGA if they're not concerned about what rising sea levels will do to Mar-a-Lago.

You know we might just be seeing the starting seed of the future legend of the Merica Atlantis.

The fabled sunken land of Mar-a-lago where the King in Orange's folly took his treasures to the dark depths.

Although after a few hundred years and many verbal re-tellings it might be the forgotten lands of Margaritaville. King Trump was a fan of a Cheeseburger in paradise. ;)

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#324
post #173
post #10

BBC did a pretty good deep dive a few days ago on what we're in for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZCh8eDZFc DW also, similar stuff, but the guest is quite good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcl5Mn373Oc Anton Petrov covered it from a much more science lens a couple months back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRoU3whzX_Q

The eu is stupid for not engaging in active climate engineering right now. They are the most at risk and should take decisive action before they end up living in a glacier. All the downvotes are just showing why no action is being taken even though right now we are literally terraforming the planet with no plan, and it is going to stop the transatlantic currents that keep Europe from becoming arctic. But sure, just d…

What could possibly go wrong?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are regions on the planet that will likely fare better than others, though.

And we can tell ourselves that those regions which fare better will be left entirely alone. No one is going to, say, kill all the inhabitants and take the land from them.

You can't own land, so that solves that issue.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#326
post #206
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar energy is the fastest growing source of energy in the US. That's because it's also the cheapest source of energy. So markets are working. https://abcnews.com/US/solar-generates-energy-coal-us-1st-ti... "Solar and storage provided 90% of all new power added in the U.S." is mind blowing. How about we give the US credit for this? Fossil fuel extraction is not the problem. The problem is fossil fuel usage. Given th…

I would have agreed with you on giving credit but we did an about face in the last 2 years and now are spending billions of dollars to pay off companies that were already building renewables because we failed when trying to just illegally cancel them[1] We’re not letting the market handle it and we’re going in a backwards direction. Can’t really crow about our accomplishments given that. [1] https://www.theguardian.c…

Completely false and epic revisionism. 96.6% of all new energy sources in the US from 2024 to 2026 were green.

Nuclear, batteries, solar, wind, hydro.

You know people can just look this stuff up right?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#327
post #206
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar energy is the fastest growing source of energy in the US. That's because it's also the cheapest source of energy. So markets are working. https://abcnews.com/US/solar-generates-energy-coal-us-1st-ti... "Solar and storage provided 90% of all new power added in the U.S." is mind blowing. How about we give the US credit for this? Fossil fuel extraction is not the problem. The problem is fossil fuel usage. Given th…

I would have agreed with you on giving credit but we did an about face in the last 2 years and now are spending billions of dollars to pay off companies that were already building renewables because we failed when trying to just illegally cancel them[1] We’re not letting the market handle it and we’re going in a backwards direction. Can’t really crow about our accomplishments given that. [1] https://www.theguardian.c…

Cancelling those contracts *IS* letting the market decide

The RWE paid 1.26 billion to acquire the lease on offshore wind. Payment is a refund.

Further, offshore wind is expensive in terms of maintenance. Stopping the project now is protecting billions in expenses in the future.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Climate change will manifest as a series of disasters viewed through phones with footage that gets closer and closer to where you live until you're the one filming it.” You cannot outrun agriculture and crop failures, infrastructure failures, insurance costs accelerating to properly price the risk, wild fires, etc. US cattle herds are at record lows from climate related input costs. Romanian, Hungarian, and Bulgaria…

Even the US military treats climate change as not only real but as a destabilizing threat. What other endorsement could one possibly need?

The US Military hit it right on the head. Climate change is a risk multiplier. It takes already potentially big issues and makes them so much worse.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution to save the environment: China should separate out Tibet, Xinjiang, and Inner Mongolia as separate independent countries. Hong Kong and Macao too. And then split north-south so that Shanghai and Beijing become their own capitals. Continue this process and eventually the population and emissions of each individual country will be low enough that they can be ignored, thus solving the problem once and for all.

That is the opposite of what GP said. The point is only the total emissions matter, the climate does not care about "fair" allocations over either people or nation-states.

That's a pointless point, because any system to actually control emissions requires allocating them to nation-states, because it is nation-states that actually enforce things on people.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#330
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the worst of people do something good every now and then. But if you reward that, they won't change. Scratching my head on that one. I mean... is something not better than nothing? Or do you only get rewarded if it's 100% perfect? If so then by that metric nobody should be rewarded here. There's nobody in the world who has done enough, certainly none of the major economic powers.

Yes, none of the major economies get rewarded because fossil fuel usage needs to be zero now , already, to avoid catastrophic warming by the end of the century. Do you reward a bull after wrecking a China shop because it decided to at least leave the employees in alive with near fatal wounds?

So what have you done to avoid using fossil fuel in your own life? fossil fuel, like almost all things sold, is a demand driven market. You want it to stop, stop doing things that use it.
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