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“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

blog.senko.net

321–330 of 589 posts

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#321
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

"wear additional, invisible hats "

No ... those are not invisible hats ... those are the real hats.

Software is 'Knowledge Distillation' the code is the hieroglyphic artifacts.

Engineers Engineer, Scribes Scribe.

Just so happens developers do their own scribing.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#323
post #205
post #72

I believe there are some programming jobs in which the code is absolutely the easier part. Not all of us work in signal processing, integrated systems or have to push upstream to Linux kernel because the company we work for really needs a memory allocation optimization for its data centers. Navigating customer requirements and building something that satisfies both market's needs and company strategy can be an incred…

I've been programming for 30 years and "Code was never the hard part" does not offend me. It's something i've been saying for a long time. You can teach anyone the mechanics of coding well in like 6 months. Programming is the hard part! I want to make this distinction because to me programming is about solving problems and coding is a way to express the solution. Designing algorithms, architectures, etc can be done w…

> You can teach anyone the mechanics of coding well in like 6 months.

You can absolutely not do this

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#325

The author might be missing the intent of the observation. Maybe they’re misinterpreting it. What I, and many people who’ve said, “code was never the hard part,” aren’t referring to the skill of an individual. It’s not the hard part of the engineering process of developing software. Programming languages have manuals. Many data structures are well documented. There are frameworks for damn near everything. While the d…

Getting everyone to understand the problems, working together, etc, etc are issues that are inherent to organisations.

They’re orthogonal to AI and to the actual hard technical skills needed to execute on a specific strategy. And if the technical skills are lacking, it doesn’t even matter how good an organisation is at collaboration, whereas hard skills plus organisational disfunction are a known successful pattern :)

Many people did look at this through an individual lens and claimed that design skills, domain knowledge are the truly important abilities. I remember reading on HN at least a couple of popular articles claiming that. Actually, they’re all important and having great design skills without matching coding skills is IMO not really possible. The code feeds into the design, the requirements, the architecture and shapes them.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#326
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, a sufficiently complex consumer or enterprise app winds up having big performance problems if people don't know what they're doing w.r.t. the code they write and how they connect systems together with that code. Those performance problems start out not mattering much, first it impacts one seldom-used part of the site, then another, but that chips away at users and can eventually tank the product. That doesn't ev…

You've really seen a web software product die because of performance issues?

Healthcare.gov was a national scandal due to poor performance related to bad requirements gathering.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#327
It’s not that coding is easy, it’s more that coding was not the bottleneck in the process at large organizations. It was (and still is) getting agreement on what to build, meeting with stakeholders, and dealing with the ever-changing priorities.

A lot of people enjoy coding, it’s the rest of the job they don’t like. That’s why it feels hard.

If a tool was going to come along and automate away a huge part of a programmer’s job, I think most would want that tool to eliminate the meetings, ambiguity, scope creep, and administrative work… not the coding itself.

My best days at work were days with nothing on my calendar, when I could just put on some headphones and make something. At the end of the day I felt like I accomplished something and had something I could see and use to show for it; I finished the day happy and energized. Contrast that with a day full of meetings, fire drills, and busy work, where at the end of the day I’m mentally and emotionally drained, wondering if I should quit to stock shelves at the local grocery store. Which day sounds “harder”?

I don’t know about where everyone else works, but defining the details of what to build seems so hard that no one actually does it, so it falls on us as we build things. During one project I got a directive from the CIO (which has only happened 1 time in 20 years) to get what I was working on done in 4 weeks. I made all the decisions myself when it came to the details and had something mostly working in 2 weeks (I skipped all meetings and any other distractions during this time). Several months later, the bureaucracy came into play. The principal architect on the project, who I never talked to before the CIO told me to get it done, finished his design and some details needed to be worked out. One such detail was a port list. It took 4+ months of meetings to get that done, and it still required constant tweaking after that for another year. There was a half dozen other things like that in the same project. So yeah, the initial code was pretty quick and fun to write, and then it was followed by 2-3 years of hell, that probably should have been worked out before we started coding. I ended up having to go back and re-write a bunch of stuff to align with the design that was decided on over a year after the deadline the CIO gave me. In most cases, I think the updated code is worse, as the bureaucratic design creates a lot of operational work that my original design avoided entirely, but I digress.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#328

The author might be missing the intent of the observation. Maybe they’re misinterpreting it. What I, and many people who’ve said, “code was never the hard part,” aren’t referring to the skill of an individual. It’s not the hard part of the engineering process of developing software. Programming languages have manuals. Many data structures are well documented. There are frameworks for damn near everything. While the d…

1000%. The expense of writing software was and still is high.

Whether it’s commercial software company or an internal team writing custom software, the return on that investment depends on many things outside of the code itself.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#329

These comments reveal a stark reality: most HN commenters have never worked on a really hard problem. They think hard problems are leetcode hards that have a prescribed list of known techniques to apply. They think communication, alignment, gathering requirements, and other political bullshit is the hard part because they have never actually solved or had to grapple with a truly hard problem. That’s fine, but it show…

Most useful software engineering work is doing fairly simple things and the numbers of people doing this work reflects that.

> those of us who have had to solve open problems with no solution written somewhere because there is none.

Probably because solving said 'truly hard problem' is niche with little or limited value as few people have tried to solve it (otherwise a solutions will likely have been written).

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#330

The author might be missing the intent of the observation. Maybe they’re misinterpreting it. What I, and many people who’ve said, “code was never the hard part,” aren’t referring to the skill of an individual. It’s not the hard part of the engineering process of developing software. Programming languages have manuals. Many data structures are well documented. There are frameworks for damn near everything. While the d…

It’s getting everyone to understand the problems, working together (etc)…

There are manuals for this too, and interestingly enough this has been studied since the Romans at least! Is it then really the hard part?

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