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The Doorman's Fallacy in action

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Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#321

Post by DanHulton »

senordevnyc wrote: post #273
venzaspa wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it named after the hypothetical scenario about a doorman? The doorman fallacy isn't even specifically aimed at what is more profitable, its just saying that there are softer roles that aren't well defined that aren't replicated when the role is automated away.

That fact doesn’t make it a fallacy. The fallacy part is the idea that the people choosing to automate that job are just stupid and ignorant, and don’t understand what the job really is. Which I’m sure is true for some automation, but doormen are a terrible example.

It’s not an absolute. The fallacy doesn’t imply that every building would be better with a doorman. But it does suggest that buildings that DO have them aren’t necessarily making a wise choice by getting rid of them.

At this point, though, I mean if you don’t get it, you don’t get it.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#322

Post by michaelmrose »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #287
michaelmrose wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing things that people like to use is a mechanical skill that has little to do with liking others but much to do with understanding others

I'm not so sure about that. It really depends on what we are designing, and who we are designing for. > little to do with liking others Sounds pretty bleak. I've come to understand what a profound disadvantage misanthropy is.

I am absolutely sure. If you are a good cook you can apply your skills to feed those who you esteem as easily as those who you hate. Imaging the target audience makes a difference requires magical thinking. In fact understanding people is liable to be negativity correlated with liking them.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#323

Post by michaelmrose »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #286
michaelmrose wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an edge case most hardware doesn't expose the ability to start charging you until the cashier totals it. The only exception is that with some hardware/software is that within a narrow window it may be possible to go back and make a change after putting the pinpad in payment mode. Remember the pinpad is a second computer not a peripheral. I have never in decades of paying for things ever seen a checkout where you…

I suspect that you may be in Europe. The US has systems that make it easy to take the money away. Giving it back...'nother story...

No I have only ever lived in the US and I have used such systems on the employee end and recently which I suspect you have not. The pinpad universally doesn't go into payment mode until the transaction is set to complete. Depending on timing it is possible on some systems to go back to the prior screen and make changes and have the first tap still count e.g. cashier totals and selects card and the pinpad goes into payment mode, the goes back and adds an item then returns to payment mode and the transaction clears but it never not ever goes into payment mode initially. Think about why.

If you have no transaction what are you paying for

If the payment screen is up as soon as the first item is added how would you show any other screens e.g. loyalty number, donation prompts, ads and other BS.

If the customer taps then verbally says they would like to use a different card or pay cash how would that be implemented? The exact total will be oft unknown until the transaction is fully rung up and people make late transaction changes literally all the time.

People insert cards early all the time which is fine because it sits there doing nothing until the end they also tap early which does nothing but because they are extra stupid this doesn't hurt much

They don't tap long enough close enough or in the right place on their card or on the machine so to them thry are already just molesting the machine repeatedly with the card until it beeps anyway.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#324

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

michaelmrose wrote: post #323
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that you may be in Europe. The US has systems that make it easy to take the money away. Giving it back...'nother story...

No I have only ever lived in the US and I have used such systems on the employee end and recently which I suspect you have not. The pinpad universally doesn't go into payment mode until the transaction is set to complete. Depending on timing it is possible on some systems to go back to the prior screen and make changes and have the first tap still count e.g. cashier totals and selects card and the pinpad goes into pa…

I just did it fifteen minutes ago, at the S&S, across the street. It's gonna be hard to gaslight me, on this one.

I can scan the phone (or a card), while the transaction is still in progress. It doesn't get charged, until the end, but it's entirely possible to scan it early.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#325

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

michaelmrose wrote: post #322
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about that. It really depends on what we are designing, and who we are designing for. > little to do with liking others Sounds pretty bleak. I've come to understand what a profound disadvantage misanthropy is.

I am absolutely sure. If you are a good cook you can apply your skills to feed those who you esteem as easily as those who you hate. Imaging the target audience makes a difference requires magical thinking. In fact understanding people is liable to be negativity correlated with liking them.

Yeah, I am constantly seeing "dead" software.

Software that is "correct," but not something that people "like" using. A "necessary evil."

Heck, I've written it myself. I have two shipping apps that basically do the same type of thing; but one is an app that I use, regularly, and the other, is to server those that want a different approach. That one is actually a lot more "powerful" than the one I use.

It's also a lot less popular. It's 100% "correct," and dead as a doornail.

Don Norman wrote a sequel to DOET, called Emotional Design, where he talks about this kind of thing.

Human emotions can't really be measured, and HN is full of "Inspector 34" types. They just can't grok emotions.

Ah, well... more for me to play with...

Have a great day!

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#326

Post by cindyllm »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #325
michaelmrose wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely sure. If you are a good cook you can apply your skills to feed those who you esteem as easily as those who you hate. Imaging the target audience makes a difference requires magical thinking. In fact understanding people is liable to be negativity correlated with liking them.

Yeah, I am constantly seeing "dead" software. Software that is "correct," but not something that people "like" using. A "necessary evil." Heck, I've written it myself. I have two shipping apps that basically do the same type of thing; but one is an app that I use, regularly, and the other, is to server those that want a different approach. That one is actually a lot more "powerful" than the one I use. It's also a lot…

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