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Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

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Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#321

Post by bashmelek »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #189
larrik wrote: post #33

It's worse than this. I have kids in school. Our school system is one of the top in Connecticut, which is the quintessential "school" state (if any rich kid on TV goes away to school, it's probably to CT). These kids (all of them, not mine) can't really read. Not like when I was young. (I'm not even old! I graduated in the 2000's!) They certainly can't write. They have no stamina to do an essay or a test like when I…

At the risk of a flamewar I want to say that I still don't accept audiobooks as a 100% drop in replacement for actually reading. I know a lot of millenials my age who insist that listening to an audiobook while is completely the same as actually sitting down and focusing without distractions on a paper book for hours. But it isn't! Firstly, much is lost without seeing the formatting of the page, and without being abl…

I exclusively read physical books, but not as a matter of principle, simply practice. I very much agree that they are different. The bigger thing, of course, is that no matter the medium, that the individual pay attention.

It is okay to listen to audiobooks, but there are other things going on with reading, and more with a physical book. When I read, I choose what to emphasize, and how to pace. I parse out the clauses, the phrasing, the pronunciation, enunciation. If I read Tolkien I give the songs tunes. I give voices to the characters. I remember where on the page something happened, and may go back for it, especially in nonfiction. I pause to digest.

Audiobooks are a different experience. And I, personally, am prone to breaks in concentration. But I think any adult should be capable and should actively practice all forms: silently reading books, listening to a book being read to you, and reading aloud to another. Consuming books is not just a matter of downloading information. It also is to be actively digested and felt. For TV shows, for example, some people watch on high speed, or play it in the background, but I feel that even if they get the plot points they miss a lot. So too with books when not given proper attention.

Edit: I’ll add, some works are meant to be listened to, they may have some tone or rhythm, trope or cantillation. Maybe even gestures. If I said “Rapunzel, Rapunzel, let down your hair,” you know how how it sounds. And I think practice in recitation lets us preserve this in the art.

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#322

Post by ndriscoll »

watwut wrote: post #308
ndriscoll wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember plenty of "young adult" books in the school library in elementary and middle school in the 90s. e.g. I read A Wrinkle in Time in 4th grade, and The Giver was assigned in 7th. I think Hatchet may have been a choice of assigned reading in 5th. IIRC (and a quick search confirms) all of these were marketed as young adult. I've always thought of YA as targeted at roughly 9-12 years old. I remember thinking the…

You seem to assume that reading fiction is some kind of competition. You read it as 9 years old, therefore it is shameful to read it as teenager or adult. That is genuinely absurd. I never said a kid should not be allowed to read books outside of their demographic bracket. Kids can read books "officially" for younger kids, older kids or adults assuming it does not contain genuinely 18+ content. A kid reading book mea…

I don't view it as a competition. I've never been big on fiction in the first place. I'm just listing books I remember being present if not assigned in classrooms when I was that old, and I remember these things being characterized as Young Adult, which struck me as condescending as a 10 year old.

By contrast, in high school we were assigned books like Brave New World, which makes a lot more sense as a book for that age range and is more what I'd think "young adult" should mean.

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#323

Post by hirvi74 »

semireg wrote: post #103
hirvi74 wrote: post #53

Why is reading for pleasure always placed on some sort of pedestal? I would argue that what is being consumed is more important than the medium of consumption. I am not trying to say there is little value in reading, but I have always found it odd that some forms of consumption are more coveted than others.

Because it is exercise for the imaginative mind. Reading can force a reader to build worlds. Some readers are good at this, others need practice. To call reading “consumptive” is severely minimizing literature’s impact on communication throughout human history. Even looking back at my mother reading Stephen King and romance novels … her reading undoubtedly shaped her and helped her understand the world and her experi…

> Because it is exercise for the imaginative mind.

So is playing, daydreaming, acting/theater, various visual arts, etc..

> To call reading “consumptive” is severely minimizing literature’s impact on communication throughout human history.

The topic is centered around reading for pleasure, not for all facets and purposes that reading serves, e.g., documentation, communication, etc..

> her reading undoubtedly shaped her and helped her understand the world and her experiences within it.

But why does the medium have to be reading to get this benefit? Would listening to a storyteller or an audiobook not confer the same benefits?

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#324

Post by hirvi74 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #126
hirvi74 wrote: post #53

Why is reading for pleasure always placed on some sort of pedestal? I would argue that what is being consumed is more important than the medium of consumption. I am not trying to say there is little value in reading, but I have always found it odd that some forms of consumption are more coveted than others.

Reading connotes all sorts of hard-to-measure advantages and growth that nothing else even comes close to. And while there are works that are better and worse, no matter how lowly the thing is that is being read, that growth still accrues. You could have a child who read nothing but cereal boxes and truck stop restroom graffiti, and he'll be ahead of his classmates on every single thing you can score. It's not the wo…

> Reading connotes all sorts of hard-to-measure advantages and growth that nothing else even comes close to.

For example..?

> And while there are works that are better and worse, no matter how lowly the thing is that is being read, that growth still accrues.

What growth and based on what evidence?

> The audio book might be the exact same story as the paperback, but the effect is not equivalent.

Again, what is this 'effect?' You keep repeating some ethereal benefit that has yet to be named. While audiobooks and paperback are not perfectly equivalent, the two are not meaningfully different.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/08/19/readingbrainmap/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3102/003465432110608...

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#325

Post by rcxdude »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #202
encrypted_bird wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, come on... I have ADHD and love reading. No need to use that as a bludgeon. It's unnecessary...

Doesn't your ADHD interfere with sitting down and reading?

For me it made it a little dangerous to read: I hyperfocus on the book and can't get anything else done until I've finished it.

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#326

Post by j4102_ »

kouteiheika wrote: post #320
kuerbel wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what they are doing on the device, 100%. When I was a kid I got a GameBoy, one of those old red ones, played tetris or Mario Land for an hour and after that it was boring and I did something else. Got an N64 which was already way more engaging, but even then after an hour or two I was done. It just got worse the more sophisticated games became. And now we have infinite videos and content, infinite scrol…

> It just got worse the more sophisticated games became. I feel like it got worse not because games became more sophisticated, but because they got dumber and require less and less brainpower. I spent my childhood playing ridiculous amount of video games, probably same amount or more as kids nowadays do. I had literally hundreds of Playstation games back in the day. And I turned out fine. But the difference was that…

Played Pokemon back in my day and even now I keep seeing how "dumbed" down it gets in some ways. The game has become more and more hand-held. Don't know if it's a trend across the entire industry though or if it's just me seeing it as an adult. I can't really say

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#327

Post by j4102_ »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #246
madaxe_again wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a really effective inoculation against the Skinner box 20+ years ago, when I became addicted to an MMO. It took my life utterly turning to shit and barely escaping being kicked out of university for me to wake up. Since, I’ve always been aware of and wary of the possibility of this kind of dopamine cycling. I see it in others. My wife discovered YouTube shorts a year or so ago, and now she’ll lose entire days t…

Yet you're still sat writing mini essays to strangers because of the dopamine hit....

Just because you're aware of it doesn't make you any better

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#328

Post by larrik »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #189
larrik wrote: post #33

It's worse than this. I have kids in school. Our school system is one of the top in Connecticut, which is the quintessential "school" state (if any rich kid on TV goes away to school, it's probably to CT). These kids (all of them, not mine) can't really read. Not like when I was young. (I'm not even old! I graduated in the 2000's!) They certainly can't write. They have no stamina to do an essay or a test like when I…

At the risk of a flamewar I want to say that I still don't accept audiobooks as a 100% drop in replacement for actually reading. I know a lot of millenials my age who insist that listening to an audiobook while is completely the same as actually sitting down and focusing without distractions on a paper book for hours. But it isn't! Firstly, much is lost without seeing the formatting of the page, and without being abl…

I personally can't stand audiobooks (or podcasts, or videos), so I'm with you there. I just read way too fast, and they feel so slow.

On the other hand, one of my kids has a pretty severe eye problem mixed with dyslexia, so audiobooks are basically his only real option (large print is hard to find, especially for books aimed at younger readers, and tablet reading is tiring). So, I'm glad they exist, at least.

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#329

Post by dyauspitr »

kakacik wrote: post #193
dyauspitr wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drop technology entirely and start failing them. You’ll never find an Asian school taking mercy on their kids.

FOMO at its best, fuck their personalities and development and having happy childhood as base layer of personality for rest of their lives, its grades at all costs! Famously most of asian kids wear glasses from studying all the time, well we need up up that up! What if they overtake us in some rat race. Not the best parenting but some folks are like that and then it shows on kids, thats true.

The rat race is nothing to be sneezed at. Social welfare systems across the world are strained even in places like Europe that historically have benefitted from the long tail of colonialism. The kids are going to have to be competitive and that means at the very least being able to read and do some math. Also it’s not like kids these days are frolicking in the fields and outside the home all day with their friends, you would just be cutting into some TikTok time.

Re: Reading for pleasure is sharply down among schoolkids, report shows

#330

Post by sardukardboard »

storus wrote: post #252

Kids are overloaded by homework, why would they want to do any "pleasure" reading in addition?

I recall enjoying books so much i would skip homework and read, regardless of feeling overloaded or not

Kids would even read in class and get their novels confiscated for the hour

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