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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#321

Post by SECProto »

dleslie wrote: post #267
YawningAngel wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone unfamiliar with the US-Canada trade relationship, it would be helpful if you developed this argument instead of stating it as a fact. I'm not well-placed to know whether your belief that Canada has bilked the US out of 46 billion dollars is well-founded or not.

It represents the trade deficit the USA has with Canada. To believe that this is a problem as a result of Canada's nefarious actions is to believe that Canada is preventing its citizens from purchasing American product. Which is a common refrain with respect to our supply management system for dairy; but to believe this you have to ignore that the USA has _never once_ managed to export enough dairy products to Canada…

> The truth is that Canadians simply don't seem all that interested in purchasing American dairy products

Yup, taking this a bit off topic: I've always bought dairy products with the blue cow on it (signifies Canadian dairy). The US dairy industry only wants to export into Canada when they have excess, and leave us dry when they don't, so i strongly support Canadian dairy production.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#322

Post by jleyank »

brightball wrote: post #295
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

What’s the word of the us on a treaty worth?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#323

Post by mmooss »

bluegatty wrote: post #249

This is actually more likely a non-political procurement decision that looks like a political one. This is the 'right size' for Canada and other nations - the US doesn't offer a true comparable, and, looks like the US balked at buying the 'kind of comparable' Boeing E7 putting it in jeopardy. With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine ... well, you see the shift. This is the shift…

As the OP says, Carney has a clear, explicit policy of reducing military (and also economic) dependence on the US, for obvious reasons. It's what Carney is best known for, his leading international affairs and economic policies.

Every time a similar story, of a country turning away from US trade, is posted HN, people post that it's not political. Not only is that claim thin and largely unsbustantiated, but why is it such a focus?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#324

Post by mmooss »

bluegatty wrote: post #291
lysace wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the EU still hasn't gotten the balls to confiscate that frozen oligarchy money, so no. Just wait, though. Soon you will cry. ;)

That's right, but Ukraine got $90B from Europe knowing most of it would come back for equipment purchases. Also - I think that EU is going to try to figure out a way to get that Russian money. If they can't, then the EU should not exist - literally. It's decisive evidence that the bureaucracy can't even face an existential threat on it's own existence because it can't organize it's own legal concerns. "We remained la…

> "We remained lawfully committed to juducial integrity and processes ... as we were exterminated!"

The rule of law, including judicial integrity, is their great strength. Corrupt dictatorships never are as wealthy and as powerful. Russia has always been far behind, and is falling further.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#325

Post by elivoncoder »

felooboolooomba wrote: post #222
hermitcrab wrote: post #72

In related news: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/05/21/italy-moves-to... I guess insulting and threatening your allies isn't great for arms sales.

If people want to grasp the view of US in Europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8qSZO4jvTI (You can watch just the first minute to get the gist)

[flagged]

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#326

Post by PearlRiver »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252
bluegatty wrote: post #249

This is actually more likely a non-political procurement decision that looks like a political one. This is the 'right size' for Canada and other nations - the US doesn't offer a true comparable, and, looks like the US balked at buying the 'kind of comparable' Boeing E7 putting it in jeopardy. With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine ... well, you see the shift. This is the shift…

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

I am getting the feeling that Americans don't understand that words have meaning. Trump insulting, threatening and bullying everones is supposed to be one big joke.

But we are talking about sovereign states here that have been around for centuries- they are neither amused nor cowed.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#327

Post by fragmede »

bluegatty wrote: post #314
jpleyden98 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's right, but Ukraine got $90B from Europe knowing most of it would come back for equipment purchases. Thats standard for military aid to other countries. Almost all US military aid to Ukraine was spent in the US for equipment purchases. The benefit for Ukraine is getting the weapons to use in the war, although it's worth noting a decent portion of the military aid will be spent by ukraine on domestic manufactu…

It's much more preferable to take the money - and it would have been even much more preferable if Putin knew that from the get go. In fact - if Ukraine were to have had that $90B 2 years ago, it may have accelerated the situation (though not guaranteed). This is not 'EU strategy' it's EU crawling out from it's own disorganization. This is Putin's only great advantage - to take advantage of complacency, bureaucracy, a…

Russia and Iran figured out how to jam Starlink.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#328

Post by gunsle »

bigfudge wrote: post #281
bluegatty wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy. The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35. This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period. 'Border State Republica…

I think this is complacent. The rest of the world is actively seeking opportunities to decouple. The US is so embedded in defence ecosystems at the moment that is a delicate balance because we are all still dependent on US space and logistics capabilities. But Ukraine and Eastern Europe and building the foundation for conventional forces to be supplied without the US, and although it will take longer, Sweden France a…

[flagged]

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#329

Post by gunsle »

Waterluvian wrote: post #229

I feel a deep sense of pride and hope, palpably in my chest, when I get a week of news about how we're developing much closer ties with our European allies and divesting ourselves of the abusive American relationship. Carney's Davos speech was powerful, but those words needed to be followed by actions, which I think we are seeing. I'm used to being so disappointed by politicians.

[flagged]

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#330

Post by bluegatty »

bigfudge wrote: post #281
bluegatty wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy. The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35. This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period. 'Border State Republica…

I think this is complacent. The rest of the world is actively seeking opportunities to decouple. The US is so embedded in defence ecosystems at the moment that is a delicate balance because we are all still dependent on US space and logistics capabilities. But Ukraine and Eastern Europe and building the foundation for conventional forces to be supplied without the US, and although it will take longer, Sweden France a…

"Reddit tier America bad geopolitics takes"

The US president threatened to take Greenland by force, that's a very real thing.

Mind you, it's one man, and not the nation or state, but he does have a lot of backers.

That's a very real concern.

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