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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

davidoks.blog

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#321

Post by evilos »

socalgal2 wrote: post #319
andrewmutz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese and American companies have different purposes. In Japan the corporation primarily provides stable income and employment for society, and secondarily returns on capital invested. In America, corporations primarily provide returns on capital invested and secondarily provide stable income and employment. This shows up in the data too. Japanese corporations are less likely to go out of business but provide wors…

If you see how Japanese CEOs live, they live a far more deprived life on the backs of their employees than any billionary CEO in the USA. Japanese companies are centered around treating most employees like indentured servants in a sweatshop so the few bosses can have giant expense accounts, vacation houses, company cars, etc.

> they live a far more deprived life

It took me a minute to figure out the typo ("depraved" instead of "deprived")

Japan compares much better to the US in terms of how much wealth the top 1% control. 24.6% vs 34.8% according to https://wid.world

Graph here: https://imgur.com/a/UwWvaHW

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#322

Post by com2kid »

ux266478 wrote: post #215
com2kid wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People lauding Chinese expediency in the context of industry and construction often don't realize it's almost entirely enabled by extreme underregulation and underenforcement of industrial safety standards Kind of like Tesla's latest factories, or DR Horton building homes with massive problems from day 1? Or Silicon Valley being a collection of superfund cleanup sites? Or just the environmental pollution, in genera…

The more direct comparison is the blue collar working conditions throughout the west in the late 19th and early 20th centuries actually. It is true that environmental protections could be much better in the United States, did you assume I would disagree or find it shocking? Why? > but making everyone follow the rules via regulations ends to being a huge cost and time multiplier. The cost and extra time it takes saves…

> The cost and extra time it takes saves lives. That's the bottom line. It's your attitude that gets people maimed and killed.

My argument, and I should have made it clearer, is that we are paying a huge penalty for people who are dishonest. The amount of money they save by being dishonest and endangering others is generally tiny, but the cost to society to prevent the dishonesty is huge in the form of regulations.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#323

Post by stymaar »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #264
stymaar wrote: post #212

> This is very different from how most wealthy countries operate. American firms, for example, tend to prioritize focus above all else It hasn't always been like that. Western companies, including US companies, used to have lots of diversification as well (maybe not as much as the Japanese, but much more than today's companies still: not that long ago a company like IBM used to make mouses and keyboards, in addition…

Funny you mention IBM given that it still has its fingers in many porridges (to butcher an expression), maybe not computer peripherals but it's still a very broad company.

I mentioned IBM because my in-laws used to work there, and they both ended up out of the company because of two waves of "let's focus on our core business" restructuring.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#324

Post by CarlitosHighway »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

Thank you for this post. I am a "Westener" who lived in Japan for 6 years. Boy, was that eye-opening in terms of "the map and the territory". Basically nothing is what it seems to be - and unfortunately the positive things mostly turn out to be nationalism-motivated make-believe, wishful thinking, or only made possible by extremely lax attitudes to amassing public debt (any country could make the trains run on time if they were ready sell their future for it).

Western Japanophiles, especially from the US, and even if they speak the language and have lived there, are mostly ignorant and their idea of Japan is a full phantasy.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#325

Post by CarlitosHighway »

jdw64 wrote: post #234
chongli wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ruthless squeezing of subcontractors Walmart and Amazon ruthlessly squeeze their suppliers. They achieve low prices on some things and try to corner the market on others (and then raise prices). What I don't see them achieving (to the contrary, I see them failing spectacularly at) is the quality control that some Japanese companies excel at. So there has to be something more to it than that.

When U.S. giants like Walmart or Amazon squeeze their suppliers, the natural consequence is cost-cutting and a drop in quality control. But for regional companies in Japan and Korea, regional mobility is incredibly difficult. In Japan, for instance, even politics is often "hereditary," and there is a strong overarching tendency for people and businesses to stay rooted in one specific region (while many do migrate to…

Thank you for your posts, which 100% match my experiences with Japan and Westerners not being able to see through the "Tatemae".

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#326

Post by CarlitosHighway »

dfabulich wrote: post #255
jdw64 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I made a very small and highly defensible claim. You argued that this article (by David Oks) is an example of "how Westerners idealize Japan." I argued that this article does not idealize Japan, and that, if you interpreted Oks' article that way, then you didn't understand the article. I didn't say that Japanese business culture is more "horizontal" than Western business culture, or that Japanese business culture is…

You say you know very little about it, but that didn't keep you from posting? This isn't what HN is about.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#327

Post by CarlitosHighway »

evilos wrote: post #321
socalgal2 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you see how Japanese CEOs live, they live a far more deprived life on the backs of their employees than any billionary CEO in the USA. Japanese companies are centered around treating most employees like indentured servants in a sweatshop so the few bosses can have giant expense accounts, vacation houses, company cars, etc.

> they live a far more deprived life It took me a minute to figure out the typo ("depraved" instead of "deprived") Japan compares much better to the US in terms of how much wealth the top 1% control. 24.6% vs 34.8% according to https://wid.world Graph here: https://imgur.com/a/UwWvaHW

That is true, but at this point in time, looking at wealth inequality in the US for comparison feels pointless, as the US can't be seen as a humanoid society anymore. By that I mean the riches of the Top 1%, and the "soon" attitude of the bottom 80% in the US feel alien, surreal, and perverted to an extent it stopped being useful as a measure for humans.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#328

Post by lonelycompiler »

Scrapemist wrote: post #317
rjzzleep wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, how can you as a Korean say these things as if you're different, given that Korean companies are essentially the same?

He is not Korean

How are you drawing that conclusion? He mentioned in several comments on this thread that he is Korean…?

Genuinely curious.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#329

Post by [deleted] »

socalgal2 wrote: post #319
andrewmutz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese and American companies have different purposes. In Japan the corporation primarily provides stable income and employment for society, and secondarily returns on capital invested. In America, corporations primarily provide returns on capital invested and secondarily provide stable income and employment. This shows up in the data too. Japanese corporations are less likely to go out of business but provide wors…

If you see how Japanese CEOs live, they live a far more deprived life on the backs of their employees than any billionary CEO in the USA. Japanese companies are centered around treating most employees like indentured servants in a sweatshop so the few bosses can have giant expense accounts, vacation houses, company cars, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#330

Post by stevenhuang »

tredre3 wrote: post #188
mrkstu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate China? I don’t see that. There are plenty of factual reports about the CCP that are pretty damning, but the people/culture/place is generally perceived postively other than being a competitor…

> I don’t see that. You seem to be an American so I'm very confused. You'd have to be willingfully blind at this point to not see the anti-chinese propaganda that has been going on in America for (at least) the past decade.

This is a not even wrong sort of misunderstanding to the realities of real politik. Your confusion is simple. You are unaware of the geopolitical games played at this level.

It is true there is anti Chinese propaganda but that is neither here nor there since posturing in this way is simply what competing world powers do.

Look past the institutional framing. The citizenry of all countries on this world are in reality on the same side far more often than opposed. The average American worker, Chinese worker, Russian worker, all want the same things: stability, prosperity, a future worth living.

It is in the self interest of states to promote nationalism and construct out-groups.

But that does not mean ordinary people should internalize such division. A wise citizenry knows to separate the notion of geopolitical competition from hatred towards ordinary citizens/culture of other countries, no matter what the state apparatus tries to tell them.

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