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SpaceX S-1

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321–330 of 404 posts

Re: SpaceX S-1

#321
post #307

We heard for years that other companies in the launch business (ULA, Arianespace) were just incompetent, ossified businesses, and that SpaceX was revolutionizing the field; and now we discover that SpaceX, after all their effort, is barely profitable and has to run the clock by diversifying and seeking an IPO... How much do reusable launchers really bring down costs? Were the companies that elected not to go this way…

That's silly, SpaceX now is a huge social media and AI company. SpaceX did like 3 billion in involvement in Starlink. The other rocket companies could never do something like that and survive.

> How much do reusable launchers really bring down costs?

Without reusable launch the flight rates they have would not be possilbe so they are the bases for why the business has value.

> Were the companies that elected not to go this way (almost all of them)

Actually literally everybody is getting into re-usability. Maybe check your facts. ULA is working on engine re-usability. RocketLab next rocket is reusable. Europe and China next rockets will be reusable. BlueOrigin of course as well.

> where would Arianespace be today if they had elected to try reusable rockets and ended up at the same point as SpaceX?

It would have failed because Arianespace literally couldn't build a reusable rocket. You can't just magic up a reusable rocket.

If in 2014, when Europe decided to not do the Ariane 5 ME and instead do an Ariane 6 reusable, it would take another 5 years minimum until a reusable rocket would happen.

Ariane 6 took 10 years while being a minor, evolution of Ariane 5 based on Ariane 5 ME project. It involved using a new engine that had been in development for 15 years already and would take 25 years to fly for the first time.

The main engine was only slightly upgraded and could never be reusable.

It would take 15 years at least to have a new engine and rocket developed. And it would have cost 3-5x as much as Ariane 6.

This would not have happened because it was politically impossible, literally totally impossible, Arianespace can't make decisions like that.

Arguably it would have been smarter to do Ariane 5 ME and not do Ariane 6 and instead build a smaller reusable rocket. Basically what they are doing now but 10 years earlier.

> (Note that SpaceX is where it is today also thanks to taxpayer money in military contracts and decades of R&D paid for by NASA and given away for free) .)

That is very reductionist. Many companies get taxpayer money in one way or another. SpaceX from the beginning did lots of private funding and had lots of private costumers. In terms of aerospace they are pretty unique in how much of their own investment they do.

And they actually mostly LOST MONEY on their early government contracts, because they offered them so cheaply. But those government contracts allowed them to lend money and invest. Had they not been able to use that and get many private costumers, they would have gone bust.

As for only because of NASA R&D is true but its just the typical everything is connected argument. Yes because government helped road infrastructure 300 years ago we have SpaceX today, but every other company also had roads and NASA and didn't turn into SpaceX.

RocketPlaneKistler got a better deal from NASA and wanted to build a reusable rocket, yes they are dead and SpaceX is where it is today. ULA had decades of massive subsidies and insane priced launches and have done nothing innovative what so ever.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#322
post #310
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also really how many satellites we actually need globally? There must be some sensible limit. And I do not believe any other crap at all. No space mining, manufacturing, moon/mars/venus/mercury/europa bases...

They also have contracts with NASA that could be cancelled the same way the lunar gateway was, like in-space refueling. Which is: - completely unproven - could affect other parts of their business: if they try it and mess up, the debris field of two Starships breaking up in medium orbit could wipe out significant parts of the starlink constellation (and other satellite operations too)...

NASA had a pretty consistent budget for 30+ years, and even if one contract gets canceled. SpaceX is by far best and most important NASA supplier, whatever NASA does with its budget, SpaceX would likely be involved.

And Starship primary mission is next generation Starlink, not NASA.

> the debris field of two Starships breaking up in medium orbit could wipe out significant parts of the starlink constellation

Do you have any evidence of that?

NASA wouldn't allow operations that could potentially destroy most sats around the world in any plan it signs.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much expected that a rapidly growing high tech company is gonna have a lot of losses and debt right? They're just spending huge amounts of money on capex. Not doing so would be like floating minerals in Starcraft: symptomatic of bad macro.

Now you have me imagining uThermal as CEO of SpaceX and I think it'd be worth it to see the cheese runs.

"Watch me PLANETARY FORTRESS RUSH the war in Ukraine"

Re: SpaceX S-1

#324
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know 'space' is a vacuum, right?

I don't see how that would lessen their concerns? Exactly because space is a vacuum, cooling is harder since you can't do convection. The math still checks out though. Scott Manley did a video on it, and the top comment has some corrections: https://youtu.be/FlQYU3m1e80

[flagged]

Re: SpaceX S-1

#325
if & when the market corrects - the crash will be one of the ages.

there's 3 businesses rolled into 1 entity as a cover to take money from gullible retail investors. SpaceX the launch business is legit. the other 2 are r fake n losing money n yet will be money will be stolen the retail investors.

anyone with half a brain knows the TAM in the S1 is like 350Bn of the space launch business - the 28TN is just fake.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#326
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 1.25B per month is not profit

Assuming renting their datacenters doesn't cost them any more than running them for themselves, and plugging 15B a year of revenue (which ignores X entirely and other forms of revenue) you get 5.4B income, more than Starlink 4.4B income (which is slightly subsidized by the launch segment)

electricity is a major cost. that 1.5B/mo is part for renting the hardware, part paying the lease on the building, and a significant part (I have no idea what %) is paying for the electricity.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#327
post #143

"in May 2026, we entered into Cloud Services Agreements with Anthropic PBC (“Anthropic”), an AI research and development public benefit corporation, with respect to access to compute capacity across COLOSSUS and COLOSSUS II. Pursuant to these agreements, the customer has agreed to pay us $1.25 billion per month through May 2029, with capacity ramping in May and June 2026 at a reduced fee" Anthropic is paying them 1.2…

As far as I can Google the colossus data centers did cost about 7-10 and 18 B respectively. Renting them out in part at 1.25 B pr month sounds like a very good deal for spacex.

Opex and debt service will eat that cash flow.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#328
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it's gonna be closer to 2 trilly

When do we call AI bubble? Like 2 trillion value and losing billions.

This time it is different. All the best commencement speeches say so.

Re: SpaceX S-1

#329
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read that Anthropic is paying them $15B/year for use of xAI's data centers? That changes things quite a bit

They are paying per month in a quickly shifting world.

with a 90 day opt out clause!

"in May 2026, we entered into Cloud Services Agreements with Anthropic, an AI research and development public benefit corporation, with respect to access to compute capacity across COLOSSUS and COLOSSUS II. Pursuant to these agreements, the customer has agreed to pay us $1.25 billion per month through May 2029, with capacity ramping in May and June 2026 at a reduced fee. The agreements may be terminated by either party upon 90 days’ notice."

Re: SpaceX S-1

#330
post #2

Their stated TAM is bonkers. A total of $28.5 trillion: $370B Space, $1.6T Connectivity, $26.5T in AI. With AI becoming more and more commoditized, the AI number is insane.

Where I'm from, TAM has to be real enough that somebody else is making money off of it. But if EBITDA doesn't count the cost of replacing your short lived satellites, who is to say what TAM means anymore.
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