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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#321

Post by lproven »

ElFitz wrote: post #19

I looked at Punkt. They keep saying "If you don’t pay for the product, you are the product". Okay, all fine and well. But what will my phone still actually be able to do if / when I stop my subscription? Not a single clear answer besides "[…] gradual feature deactivation, and ultimately reverting to a device running AOSP". Doesn’t really inspire confidence.

> But what will my phone still actually be able to do if / when I stop my subscription?

I have two of them and use one as my spare phone. I wrote this article.

As far as I can tell: all that happens is that you lose your encrypted email account and cloud storage. That's it. Otherwise, the phone continues working as before.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#326

Post by lproven »

retired wrote: post #4
DeathArrow wrote: post #2

I usually buy either Xiaomi or Oppo phones and I am pretty happy.

Are Xiaomi phones still legal in the EU with their proprietary chargers? All phones need to have USB-C and USB-PD now.

> Are Xiaomi phones still legal in the EU

Yes. I wrote the article. I use one.

> with their proprietary chargers?

Not true. It's a generic USB-C device. Does fast charge off any high-power charger, e.g. a Raspberry Pi one.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#327

Post by lproven »

bogdan wrote: post #96
DeathArrow wrote: post #2

I usually buy either Xiaomi or Oppo phones and I am pretty happy.

Which brand do you prefer? I'm currently looking at both Xiaomi 17 Ultra and Oppo Find x9 Ultra.

I wrote the article. My daily driver is a Xiaomi Poco F5.

It is near the end of its life now -- struggles to last the day -- and it was stuffed with bloatware, but it was good for the price in 2023.

My previous handset was an Umidigi F2 which was much better value for money. I will probably go back to them, or another budget brand such as Dooyoo, Blackview, Ulefone, etc.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#328

Post by akimbostrawman »

bornfreddy wrote: post #309
microtonal wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).

No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. No, microG is definitely not talking to Google all the time, NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it (which is easily done, as opposed to stopping Google Services in GrapheneOS) - but to be fair I didn't actually validate that. I kind of like GrapheneOS o…

>No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway.

You don't seem to understand how play service / MicroG work. Maps or Auto Apps aren't the ones having the privilaged access but Play Service and MicroG.

>NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it

Since play services/microg have higher privileges than NetGuard they could just bypass it.

>But avoiding Google (and other big tech) is the reason I am not on a cheaper and more convenient phone with regular Android, so if GrapheneOS refuses to support an alternative to Google Play Services, I'm not too happy about it. If there are real problems with microG then I'm sure the authors would be interested in a better solution too.

That doesn't make any sense at all. GrapheneOS by default has _0_ Google connections unlike LineageOS, /E/ or any other AOSP fork. MicroG is not an alternative to not using play services at all = actually avoiding Google, but a open source reimplementation that still has all the privacy and security issues of regular play services. GrapheneOS sandboxes Google play services only have the privacy issues since just like with MicroG you still connect to Google = not actually avoiding Google.

The issue with no notification without play services can be easily fixed by not using privacy hostile apps which only work with them.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#329

Post by cromka »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #213
cromka wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still use the internet. Just avoiding a mobile phone is not a magic pill against surveillance.

> You still use the internet. Just avoiding a mobile phone is not a magic pill against surveillance. Very true. But it is a huge first step.

Well, true as well

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#330

Post by bornfreddy »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #328
bornfreddy wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. No, microG is definitely not talking to Google all the time, NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it (which is easily done, as opposed to stopping Google Services in GrapheneOS) - but to be fair I didn't actually validate that. I kind of like GrapheneOS o…

>No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. You don't seem to understand how play service / MicroG work. Maps or Auto Apps aren't the ones having the privilaged access but Play Service and MicroG. >NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it Since play services/microg have higher privileges than NetGu…

You are missing the point. MicroG allows me to disable it when I want to, and push notifications still work when I (rarely) need to enable it.

It's not about security, it is about privacy. While MicroG in theory could bypass NetGuard, I very much doubt that anyone would bother. My privacy is not that precious.

But as I said, neither solution is great. How about sandboxing MicroG too?

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