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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#321

Post by raffael_de »

bognition wrote: post #317
raffael_de wrote: post #311

So many people here endorsing prohibition affecting everybody just because some folks aren't able to control themselves. I simply don't want the state to nanny me.

> some folks aren't able to control themselves I get that there are some people who have anomalous abilities to self control, and i understand that they might have a hard time empathizing with those of us that dont have that level of control. However to chalk up the solution as be a better person, when in reality corporations are spending billions on research and design of addictive products is just short sighted. We…

you seem to believe that those companies hold some magical spell over people. that's exaggerating what is actually possible. all they can do is decide what you see on you feed and things like that. some people can't handle it. well, that is their loss ... it shouldn't be mine. and no, I couldn't care less if insta or tictac gets banned. the problem is that this is setting a precedent for a dystopic, nanny state where adults are treated like children. i don't want to live in such a society.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#322

Post by antonyt »

raffael_de wrote: post #311

So many people here endorsing prohibition affecting everybody just because some folks aren't able to control themselves. I simply don't want the state to nanny me.

I'm sympathetic to your point, but at some point other people ruining themselves degrades your experience as well.

I don't gamble and in theory don't care if others do. But prediction markets are affecting sports and possibly governance as well in obviously negative ways.

For this specific issue - the more functionally illiterate, zero-attention-span humans we create, the worse all of our lives will become.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#323

Post by raffael_de »

antonyt wrote: post #322
raffael_de wrote: post #311

So many people here endorsing prohibition affecting everybody just because some folks aren't able to control themselves. I simply don't want the state to nanny me.

I'm sympathetic to your point, but at some point other people ruining themselves degrades your experience as well. I don't gamble and in theory don't care if others do. But prediction markets are affecting sports and possibly governance as well in obviously negative ways. For this specific issue - the more functionally illiterate, zero-attention-span humans we create, the worse all of our lives will become.

there have always been losers, junkies and assholes. i'd rather have some of them but an entire society of adults brainwashed into wearing mental diapers.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#324

Post by nicolix »

pembrook wrote: post #186
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

Glad to hear a false comparison to something that's actually physically/chemically addictive really resonated with you (a.k.a. affirmed your already existing beliefs in this moral panic). If we step back and look at this rationally though, can anybody point me to any peer reviewed studies (the actual studies, not clickbait articles written based off the studies) showing that social media is anywhere near as physicall…

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12322333/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27247125/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12042983/

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#325

Post by adverbly »

conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

Do you really think a couple algorithm changes are all that's needed to make social media something into something that won't have a significant negative impact on the average child if they're exposed to it?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#326

Post by irusensei »

buellerbueller wrote: post #254
irusensei wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure candy colored EU paradise even today is discussing on breaking encryption and privacy for its citizens. I'm posting from the EU.

-In the EU it is a political discussion. -In the USA, the government buys the data legally from the parties who are allowed to collect it and there are no political discussions. One of these is obviously better than the other.

> "In the EU, there is a a political discussion about outlawing privacy."

> "In the US, the government is using illegal methods to violate rights granted by the constitution."

Agreed one is obviously better than the other. The EU treats privacy as a privilege granted by the government while the US treats it as a fundamental right.

I'm not a fan of the US gov but I also don't agree with the candy colored view of the EU as an institution that does no wrong and when it does its a "well intended but misguided".

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#327

Post by SlinkyOnStairs »

kgwxd wrote: post #46
anzerarkin wrote: post #22

I don’t think this is only a kids issue. A lot of adults need this too. The addictive apps are very well designed, while most blockers are either too easy to ignore or too annoying to keep using. I built a small iOS blocker because I had the same problem. Making it strict enough to actually work without making people hate it is the main challenge.

As an adult, who despises all those apps, I don't want to grant government the power to make that decision for me.

> I don't want to grant government the power to make that decision for me.

The alternative is letting multi-trillion dollar companies make those decisions for you, which they do with the explicit intent to manipulate you AND to push the politics of the currently sitting government of the United States.

Meta has repeatedly censored LGBT content, with no warning or stated policy change, since the government changed. All without the formal legislative process. Good chance the Trump admin didn't even ask for this, Meta just did it pre-emptively to suck up to them.

Opposing some basic restrictions on addictive and exploitative features and the requirement to offer users a standard reverse-chronological-followed feed without "The Algorithm", does not make you an Anti-Government Free Thinker. You're the exact kind of "sheep" Zuckerberg & the Trump administration want you to be.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#328

Post by jubilanti »

SirMaster wrote: post #184
wackget wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern-day cigarette is such a perfect metaphor for social media. A cabal of unfathomably wealthy companies spreading their harmful products across the world; making them as addictive as possible while actively burying the research which proves how harmful they are. I truly hope one day we'll look back on social media and smartphone use the same way we regard smoking.

But if you stop using social media, you don't still have a risk of lung cancer in the future. The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain. The effects of years of smoking are not so reversible in terms of what it does to your body.

You have absolutely no evidence of these claims and are just rampantly speculating based on vague knowledge. You can't just shout "neuroplasticity!"

Cite sources or delete your comment.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#329

Post by Teever »

SirMaster wrote: post #279
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, there are good studies linking social media use to depression. While you can somewhat mitigate the negative health effects of smoking by stopping and then making healthy decisions like doing sports and paying attention to what you eat, depression isn't something you can just stop having.

But are you saying that social media causes irreversible and permanent depression that neuroplasticity cannot ever reverse? There is also a healthy side to social media, but not really a healthy side to smoking. Social media helps me make and keep in touch with friends. I have not found any negatives personally. My feeds are pretty much just posts from friends. I have removed everything else by now.

This who conversation seems a bit simplistic and reductionist.

Sure the brain grows and changes but just pointing to 'neuroplasticity' -- a concept none of us really understand and saying 'it's all good' -- isn't that insightful because it's too one dimensional. At the end of the day we can say that this must have some permanent effect on the brain because people remember their time on social media, right? Yes, it's a mixed bag with some positives from social media but at the end of the day there's an opportunity cost for the time that they spent on social media in the form of times shared with loved ones, the formation of positive relationships in the real world, and perhaps career opportunities.

With that said the bigger issue to keep in mind is that the people who push this kind of technology on society do so knowing that it has negative consequences for individual users and society as a whole and yet they push it anyways for personal profit. And more than just pushing it they actively lobby the government to change laws or prevent regulations from being enacted that would stop them from doing so.

This is odious behaviour and it should be stopped and the people involved should face personal consequences for damaging society so casually.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#330

Post by ethbr1 »

echelon wrote: post #246
jrflo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I removed the link, just thought it was relevant to the discussion.

You shouldn't remove the link. Self-promotion is the anti-hyperscaler. I'd far prefer 100,000 hustlers to the hyperscalers forcing device attestation, 92% URL-bar-to-ad-funnel monopoly, "oops no more adblocker for you anymore", hardware we don't own, no direct app downloads, dumping on healthy markets with outside business unit profit to kill them off, continue growing like cancer, etc. etc. Also, while on the point…

> I'm hoping fast on-device AI agents finally kill off advertising. I'm hoping my agent will stand between me and (advertising, toxicity, the algorithm, etc.) and literally rip the suit and pants right off Meta, Google, et al.

How'd that work out with browsers?

Funding matters and working for the people pays less than working for businesses.

If we want a user -agent future, then we'd better figure out a financial model to incentivize that at scale. (Graphene or Mozilla subscription service?)

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