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Getting arrested in Japan

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Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's judicial system has something like a 99% conviction rate. It's "safe" because they swipe up every single criminal they can, plus a bunch of random people in the process. So everyone is naturally going to be on their best behavior.

The claim that Japan is "safe" because it has a high conviction rate is a junk meme. The United States federal conviction rate is essentially identical to the Japanese judicial conviction rate when measured by the same methodology. It's roughly 99.6-99.8% depending on the year. Japan is safe because of other factors, not their conviction rate. > they swipe up every single criminal they can, plus a bunch of random peo…

That's absolutely wrong. In the US it's closer to 93%. If you can't tell the difference between "sometimes we get the wrong guy, then let him go" and "we literally never make a mistake", I don't think this conversation can continue in good faith.

Edit: Japan literally has a higher conviction rate than authoritarian regimes. It's like trying to argue the US doesn't have a birthing problem because we "only" have 5.6 infant deaths per thousand.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim that Japan is "safe" because it has a high conviction rate is a junk meme. The United States federal conviction rate is essentially identical to the Japanese judicial conviction rate when measured by the same methodology. It's roughly 99.6-99.8% depending on the year. Japan is safe because of other factors, not their conviction rate. > they swipe up every single criminal they can, plus a bunch of random peo…

Exactly. What is it with the weird attacks on Japan here? Chinese sockpuppet accounts maybe?

A single valid complaint about a nation isn't inherently some kind of propaganda. The only type of account that would imply this in this scenario (other than an extremely ignorant one) is a Japanese sock puppet account, ironically.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#323
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only way that Japan can be clean and orderly is by abusing people for months at a time only to drop charges, you have to ask if maybe that's a problem. The conviction rate and reliance on often questionably obtained confessions is also a problem that's hardly only noticed by outsiders.

The short version of the Japanese justice system is "Guilty until proved innocent", instead of (as in most modern countries) "Innocent until proved guilty". In addition to that, focus is much more on confessions instead of investigation - the latter exists of course, and is used for finding the culprit (as happened when we had a burglary at our house. They got the guy one year later). When someone is in custody thoug…

And today I read an article in a Japanese newspaper about an innocent woman who was detained for two years, because an interpreter translated a word incorrectly. And, apparently, deliberately. It finally went to court after two years (one must wonder how this is possible..) and was aquitted (with a comment that translation is supposed to be accurate and faithful).

In the same article it was described how interpreters would believe that their job was to extract a confession. Recently an organization is trying to educate interpreters in ethics and what an interpreter's job actually is - to translate, and only translate.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What is it with the weird attacks on Japan here? Chinese sockpuppet accounts maybe?

It comes from a cursory understanding of the world outside of western countries. People watch a few videos on youtube about other countries, or visit on vacation for a week, and assume they understand the mentality of people who live there. It's hubris. Then they apply western moralities to other cultures, implicitly assuming their own western ideals are superior. For example, pretty much everything kulahan wrote abo…

How is this the third comment lying to defend Japan? This is the weirdest astroturfing I've ever seen. This isn't even something people argue over - there's a whole wiki article on how shitty the Japanese legal system is. Weebs are awful, I swear.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a British term for halfway houses specifically for people out on bail.

No, I'm not meaning this here. I'm meaning people who cannot afford bail so are kept imprisoned, before even going to trial.

Oh. NGL I've never heard it used in that context before (as an american)

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a British term for halfway houses specifically for people out on bail.

No, I'm not meaning this here. I'm meaning people who cannot afford bail so are kept imprisoned, before even going to trial.

In the US people kept on bail are kept in the same jail as people who have already gone to trial and been found guilty of minor crimes.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen documentaries about US bail hostels I’m not familiar with this term. Is that an old thing?

It's a British term for halfway houses specifically for people out on bail.

Fascinating - apparently they are for people who need a “suitable address” to qualify for bail, generally because they are otherwise homeless. The US doesn’t require any fixed address for bail in general and only the most organized and progressive court systems do anything except let them out the jail door wearing whatever they were arrested in, and lock it behind them: frequently around 10pm once someone gets done with the paperwork.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim that Japan is "safe" because it has a high conviction rate is a junk meme. The United States federal conviction rate is essentially identical to the Japanese judicial conviction rate when measured by the same methodology. It's roughly 99.6-99.8% depending on the year. Japan is safe because of other factors, not their conviction rate. > they swipe up every single criminal they can, plus a bunch of random peo…

That's absolutely wrong. In the US it's closer to 93%. If you can't tell the difference between "sometimes we get the wrong guy, then let him go" and "we literally never make a mistake", I don't think this conversation can continue in good faith. Edit: Japan literally has a higher conviction rate than authoritarian regimes. It's like trying to argue the US doesn't have a birthing problem because we "only" have 5.6 in…

> In the US it's closer to 93%

Yeah, you have no understanding of the systems you are talking about, nor any understanding of the numbers you are copy-pasting. You are comparing apples to oranges. The United States federal conviction rate, when measured using the same metrics as the Japanese conviction rate, is ~99.6% [0]. Read the Pew Research article Fewer than 1% of federal criminal defendants were acquitted in 2022 to understand why [0].

The Japanese system is structured so that prosecutors do intense filtering before indictment. In Japan, prosecutors decide to indict in fewer than one-third of referred cases. Approximately 65-70% of cases are dropped before formal charges are filed. After charges are filed, post-charge dismissals are extremely rare (0.026%) and only occur in extraordinary cases. The post-charge dismissal rate is essentially zero.

By contrast, the United States federal system filters less aggressively before indictment. It allows 83% of referred cases through to indictment. It then filters again, and drops 8.2% of charged defendants after charges are filed, in post-charge dismissal.

The United States system has post-charge dismissals, and the Japanese system does not. These are fundamentally different systems, and cannot be compared directly. To make the systems comparable, US post-charge dismissals should be counted as pre-charge dismissals like they would be under the Japanese system. Then the metrics can be compared equivalently.

When measured on the same metric (acquittals as a share of all formally charged defendants), the gap between the two systems disappears. Japan's acquittal rate is approximately 0.1%. The US federal acquittal rate is 0.4%. Both are under 1%.

> "sometimes we get the wrong guy, then let him go" and "we literally never make a mistake"

This claim demonstrates no understanding of the Japanese legal system. Approximately two-thirds of cases in the Japanese legal system are dropped before charges are filed. This is what happened to the woman in the submitted article, there was not enough evidence to prosecute, so the charges were dropped. Japan's rate of dropping charges is far higher than in the United States legal system, where only 25% of cases are dropped pre-charges, and another 8% are dropped post-charges. The US system only drops one-in-three cases. Japan drops two-in-three cases. Comparing the two systems, Japan prosecutes half as many cases as does the United States, on a per-case basis.

The irony is, Japan literally falls under your invented category of "sometimes we get the wrong guy, then let him go". Japan lets people go at twice the rate of the US federal system. You're parroting claims without any understanding of the system behind it.

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-tha...

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes from a cursory understanding of the world outside of western countries. People watch a few videos on youtube about other countries, or visit on vacation for a week, and assume they understand the mentality of people who live there. It's hubris. Then they apply western moralities to other cultures, implicitly assuming their own western ideals are superior. For example, pretty much everything kulahan wrote abo…

How is this the third comment lying to defend Japan? This is the weirdest astroturfing I've ever seen. This isn't even something people argue over - there's a whole wiki article on how shitty the Japanese legal system is. Weebs are awful, I swear.

The issues with your comments are:

1) You obviously don't understand the Japanese legal system.

2) You're very comfortable lying, and making up false claims about the Japanese legal system.

3) You don't address your lies when they are called out.

4) There are genuine issues with the Japanese legal system that you could critique, but you're unable to articulate these issues and instead resort to (2).

For example, you could critique Japan's 23 day arbitrary detention policy, but instead you focused on Japan's high conviction rate which is actually very comparable to that of other nations.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What is it with the weird attacks on Japan here? Chinese sockpuppet accounts maybe?

A single valid complaint about a nation isn't inherently some kind of propaganda. The only type of account that would imply this in this scenario (other than an extremely ignorant one) is a Japanese sock puppet account, ironically.

Nope, it's an invalid complaint. You stated "they [Japan] swipe up every single criminal they can, plus a bunch of random people" which is utter bullshit and a total fabrication.

If you didn't invent lies, then your comments would be received differently.

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