Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Online age verification is the hill to die on

x.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 750 posts

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#321

Post by traderj0e »

anonym29 wrote: post #14
jaykru wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "cashier standard" you advocate for has already crept toward centralized state tracking in places like Utah. When you go to a restaurant and order a drink, the staff are required to take it to the back and scan it for verification. The scanned data is also compared with a state database of DUI offenders. It's not clear whether the database is stored on site, or if that data goes out on the wire for the check; pre…

This is not the case in most of the country. Utah is largely influenced by a Mormon / LDS culture that expresses heavy opposition to drinking. I am clearly not proposing that the cards be scanned Utah style, I am proposing that they be glanced at by a cashier, everywhere else style.

California grocery stores scan ID too

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#322

Post by Forgeties79 »

dpark wrote: post #247
Forgeties79 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ageism is a legally defined form of discrimination as well as the subject of ethical discussions. It's a real, defined thing. Just because we disagree on what qualifies as ageism doesn't mean you get to call foul and say it's irrational/emotional.

This is literally a “think of the children[‘s freedom]” appeal. You’re not arguing for or against the restriction on its merits. In the US at least there’s also no such thing legally as age discrimination against minors so far as I’m aware. Edit: Let me frame this differently. “Ageism” is basically by definition bad, so applying the term “ageism” to a restriction is a an attempt to label the restriction bad without e…

You’ve lost me.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#323

Post by scotty79 »

bloppe wrote: post #294

There are lots of ways to implement identity verification while preserving privacy. It's actually a super interesting engineering problem. Estonia has an excellent model to build on. The government can maintain a "traditional" ID system based on documents and in-person verification, and provide you with a device similar to a yubi-key or Bitcoin hardware wallet that could be used to share specific, cryptographically v…

In Poland online banks to that. You can verify your identity for government purposes with the use of your online bank. No need for government to set up a scheme to confirm millions of people in person.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#324

Post by barnacs »

nonethewiser wrote: post #238
barnacs wrote: post #232

Hopefully this will give yet another push towards decentralized, open source services. Platforms where noone and everyone is responsible and the state does not get to decide the rules.

I dont think most people actually want that in practice. That's why we dont have it right now.

I don't think most people have been inconvenienced enough yet. ID verification is invasive enough and should cause enough friction to push another bunch over the edge.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#325

Post by lokar »

traderj0e wrote: post #315
bluGill wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is adult content? I know parents who have no problem with their kids seeing porn. I know parents who give their kids a beer. I know parents who take their kids to violent movies. I used to know parents who will give their kids cigarettes. Most parents I know will disagree with their kids doing one of the above. I know songs that were played on the radio in 1960 that would not be allowed today, even though today…

There are already laws defining this. Had to draw the line somewhere, and they did.

In which legal jurisdiction and culture? Many or most website are have users from many locations.

Is the header a json encoded map from country code to age rating?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#326

Post by Induane »

traderj0e wrote: post #282
Bender wrote: post #8

The one and only method I will participate in is server operators setting a RTA header [1] for URL's that may contain adult or user-generated or user-contributed content and the clients having the option to detect that header and trigger parental controls if they are enabled by the device owner. That should suffice to protect most small children. Teens will always get around anything anyone implements as they are alr…

Or could have a header saying this is not adult-only content, and a parentally-controlled device will block things that don't participate.

I always love seeing pros and cons of whitelist vs blacklist sorts of strategies in different scenarios.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#327

Post by crabbone »

Bender wrote: post #8

The one and only method I will participate in is server operators setting a RTA header [1] for URL's that may contain adult or user-generated or user-contributed content and the clients having the option to detect that header and trigger parental controls if they are enabled by the device owner. That should suffice to protect most small children. Teens will always get around anything anyone implements as they are alr…

How would this work with sites like YouTube which allow sharing of content, potentially not appropriate for children, but the content is generated by the site's users? Who will be fined for "violations"? And how would such a fine be levied, especially internationally?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#328

Post by wtallis »

dev_l1x_be wrote: post #309

We need a truly distributed point-to-point internet asap. Politicians going to do everything to limit free speech and free ideas in the name of protecting children while they already got all the powers to investigate and stop child abuse. https://meshtastic.org/

Did you intend to link to Meshtastic as an example of how not to achieve your goals? Because it definitely isn't capable of scaling up to anything like the whole internet, and the project struggles to agree on any goals they want to reliably achieve.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#329

Post by [deleted] »

Induane wrote: post #326
traderj0e wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or could have a header saying this is not adult-only content, and a parentally-controlled device will block things that don't participate.

I always love seeing pros and cons of whitelist vs blacklist sorts of strategies in different scenarios.

[deleted]

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#330

Post by beej71 »

didgetmaster wrote: post #304

I have long thought that all content (local and remote) should be properly labeled with metadata. Just like the cans of soup in the supermarket, you don't have to open it to find out if it has peanuts, lactose, or MSG in it; you should be able to filter data before accessing it. You could define a set of 5 or six categories (nudity, sex, drugs, violence, etc.) and have a scale from 1 to 10 for each. Each content prod…

There are some showstoppers here, though. You have to either:

A) Change the laws in all countries (a non-starter), or B) Restrict access to only countries that obey those laws

And Option B is a non-starter to the freedom crowd.

Not to mention all the other issues with labeling, such as:

A) How to label in an internationally-agreeable way B) How to prevent abusive mislabeling

It's fraught, this path.

Post reply on HN