Is there really nothing like BitTorrent for git, or have we just not heard about it because of GitHub's network effects? It feels like this problem was solved long ago for binaries.
There is! https://radicle.dev :)
There is also ForgeFed/vervis
We need a federation of forges
321–330 of 424 posts
Re: We need a federation of forges
#322Tangled is pretty cool. I'm not particularly into atproto, and I think the connection kind of distracts from the reality of what it is and can do.
You can host your git repo on their servers, or your own. You can host issues/pull requests/runners/etc on their servers, or your own. Regardless of where a repo is hosted, you can interact with it from a single account, and with that same account interact with others' repos connected to tangled. Plus it has native jujutsu support, though you can use plain ol' git if you want to, too.
Do I think a forge with those features necessarily needs to use atproto to exist, or that atproto is the ideal version of itself? No, not really. But the site is there, and it has some pretty neat features I want; I don't need to love the stack to use it, any more than I do Github's.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Atproto isn’t “many servers sending messages to each other”. It’s structured more like RSS Except that, crucially, RSS/Atom plays well with static nodes (e.g. personal websites generated with Jekyll/Hugo/whatever—or even written by hand[1]), and Atproto does not. (Nor does Mastodon; previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30862612 >.) It'd be great if the complexities needed to support the "Atmosphere" wer…
Atom is pull, Atproto is push. Atom was designed for news, before social media existed, where 15+ minute polling times were (borderline) acceptable. Atproto was designed for social media, in an age of Twitter users getting their news in seconds, to the point of being able to comment on live events play-by-play. There's no coming back from that world. With that said, I wish both Mastodon and Atproto supported opt-in p…
> Atproto was designed for social media, in an age of Twitter users getting their news in seconds, to the point of being able to comment on live events play-by-play.
And this is widely recognized by now to have been a very bad thing, even/especially those most susceptible to its draw. It's strange that you're framing it as a strength and not a lament.
> There's no coming back from that world.
You can't say that when everyone just begs the question and shoves application-server-needed-here protocol designs to the fore.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with VC-founded projects is that there's some kind of rug-pull, ads, privacy violation or "feature enhancing" subscription likely coming and as users we should know. I don't really like services that stress how idealistic they are when this is the upcoming reality. Better charge money for services or if you're truly idealistic start it as a non-profit. At the very least communicate what's the monetization p…
The big question is (and I don't know the answer, so not rhetorical) whether the protocol being open can be sufficient to prevent the rug-pull from being too bad...
If their technology choices are holding them back it just means the product becomes more turbulent as they desperately thrash for a way to make more money.
A protocol isn't a good enough reason for investors not getting their payday. They'll just force aggressive and reckless changes to see a return.
The only way this kind of thing works is if profit isn't in the equation, or the easiest path to profit lines up with what's best for the customers.
This is why I'm skeptical about bluesky in general. Despite the protocol, it's incredibly centralised. If they wanted to make money it won't be long before they start putting up the walls around their garden. The same thing applied here as well, if investors demand a return the open protocol usage will shrink or become less open.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#325I don't think we need a federation of forges. What we need instead is just richer git repos. Fossil gets 90% there with integrating tickets (issues), forums and wikis as part of the repo itself. When you clone a fossil repo, those are also part of the clone, and can be browsed offline on an airplane. Replies can also be written offline and, permissions willing, synced back up to the remote, either immediately or when…
Hey, so... Thanks for this. I've been building ticket systems and agents and whatever else as flat files in git repos lately and now I see I have to extend that to actually managing the repos themselves.
This is going to be so nice.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
They'll then defederate also from you. The argument goes, you're a nazi/facist/racist/*phobe, because you associate with (== did not defederate from) the designated nazi/facist/racist/*phobe. Yes, it's that toxic. Go subscribe #FediBlock hashtag if you don't believe me.
Ok, so what? Let those people block you then, sounds like people you probably don't want to interact with anyways? I've seen that, and I'm not sure what's supposed to be toxic. It's community-organized filtering of unwanted views, for the people who want to engage in that. I don't agree with that, so I don't participate or do that myself, and I also don't seem to face any negative consequences because I'm not partici…
Look, life is complicated and not a single issue, contrary to what admins of many of those fedi instances would like. Typical human has views on multiple subjects, but it takes only a single incorrect opinion expressed to have you ejected. Worse yet, it happens by leveraging the admin of your instance: they go to the admin and tell him/her that if you're not banned, they'll defederate the whole instance. IOW they're bullies, and bullies squared at that: they designed a whole protocol to enable bullying.
Again, go check #FediBlock. If you'd like a specific example of the single issue vs multiple issues, pay specific attention to trans vs black conflict there and see how it is played by both sides.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#327This type of thing requires an economic driver to monetize the service.
I'd have a strong inclination to run such software if I knew that I was both helping host repos and getting paid.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#328How will this end up going any better than Mastodon has? Near inevitabilities: - All the small instances defederating from the largest due to politics/spam/annoying noobs/whatever, effectively killing the easiest path to entry into the community - Pointless debates about whether it’s OK to federate with instances that host pirated content, disagreeable politics, furry VNs, etc., which everyone has to take a side (the…
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Re: We need a federation of forges
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you cherry pick complicated commands, and remove all context, sure, they look cryptic. I wrote that tutorial, and literally only one of those is relevant to my day to day work: jj new o, which means “make a new change on top of the change named o”. Yes, if you remove the context that “o” is on your screen and highlighted, it looks complex. It’s the same with the other “jj new” command: you’re producing a merge by…
> If you cherry pick complicated commands, and remove all context, sure, they look cryptic. Sure I'm definitely not playing fair, but I am cherry picking from the intro tutorial you put together, so I'm not going crazy either :P I think my primary issue is that jj feels like it wants to control how I work more than git does. Mentally - I just don't want to have to think about changes as often as jj seems to want to t…
I also have zero aliases for git, and for jj. (I used to have one joke alias.)
That said: you should use the tools you like to use.
Re: We need a federation of forges
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Atproto isn’t “many servers sending messages to each other”. It’s structured more like RSS Except that, crucially, RSS/Atom plays well with static nodes (e.g. personal websites generated with Jekyll/Hugo/whatever—or even written by hand[1]), and Atproto does not. (Nor does Mastodon; previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30862612 >.) It'd be great if the complexities needed to support the "Atmosphere" wer…
There's always some Gemini protocol faction that shows up to yell that everything is wrong and we have to keep hand assembling our packets by hand or it'll never work. Atproto's PDS is the root idea that everything extends off of, is the "social filesystem" that you control. There's a protocol objective to be able to spread your data around widely and for folks to be able to cryptographically check that that data cam…
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